2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[JPower]

Have some faith in Fred lol

Although, I do wonder why they’ve decided to redesign the front suspension when they are finally seeming to get the hang of their current design.

This year's car had some very clear foundational weaknesses that prevented the team and drivers from having anything that could be considered the 'best' car. And having the best car is always the goal.

If 2025 were to start where 2024 left off, Mclaren would be massive favorites for both WDC and WCC. Ferrari has a great driver pairing, but we cant rely on Mclaren and Norris having mess-ups all season long. We need to produce an equal or better car to actually grasp the title chances in our hands, rather than just hoping it slips through Mclaren's fingers in our favor.

And to get such a car with a higher performance floor and ceiling, we clearly need to take some more chances on design. It's risky, but it must be done.

It's also pretty crucial to get the 2025 foundation as good as it could be, because no team can afford to devote development resources to the 2025 car all season long for a title battle.

I understand all of that, just saying that developing a new front suspension with all of the risks that entails is almost a leap of faith at the tail end of a regulatory set. No do-overs or revision like 2023 to 2024. Of course, it could very much payoff and put Ferrari in a place where they can explore new avenues of development. But there's significant downside risk as well.

I'm no F1 engineer though and I'm sure they have more than enough data support the decision. Fingers crossed it works out.

[F1NAC]

Have some faith in Fred lol

Although, I do wonder why they’ve decided to redesign the front suspension when they are finally seeming to get the hang of their current design.

This year's car had some very clear foundational weaknesses that prevented the team and drivers from having anything that could be considered the 'best' car. And having the best car is always the goal.

If 2025 were to start where 2024 left off, Mclaren would be massive favorites for both WDC and WCC. Ferrari has a great driver pairing, but we cant rely on Mclaren and Norris having mess-ups all season long. We need to produce an equal or better car to actually grasp the title chances in our hands, rather than just hoping it slips through Mclaren's fingers in our favor.

And to get such a car with a higher performance floor and ceiling, we clearly need to take some more chances on design. It's risky, but it must be done.

It's also pretty crucial to get the 2025 foundation as good as it could be, because no team can afford to devote development resources to the 2025 car all season long for a title battle.

I understand all of that, just saying that developing a new front suspension with all of the risks that entails is almost a leap of faith at the tail end of a regulatory set. No do-overs or revision like 2023 to 2024. Of course, it could very much payoff and put Ferrari in a place where they can explore new avenues of development. But there's significant downside risk as well.

I'm no F1 engineer though and I'm sure they have more than enough data support the decision. Fingers crossed it works out.

It’s not like the kinematics of the front pull rod had changed. They have experience from 2012-2014 period.

[ing.]

This year's car had some very clear foundational weaknesses that prevented the team and drivers from having anything that could be considered the 'best' car. And having the best car is always the goal.

If 2025 were to start where 2024 left off, Mclaren would be massive favorites for both WDC and WCC. Ferrari has a great driver pairing, but we cant rely on Mclaren and Norris having mess-ups all season long. We need to produce an equal or better car to actually grasp the title chances in our hands, rather than just hoping it slips through Mclaren's fingers in our favor.

And to get such a car with a higher performance floor and ceiling, we clearly need to take some more chances on design. It's risky, but it must be done.

It's also pretty crucial to get the 2025 foundation as good as it could be, because no team can afford to devote development resources to the 2025 car all season long for a title battle.

I understand all of that, just saying that developing a new front suspension with all of the risks that entails is almost a leap of faith at the tail end of a regulatory set. No do-overs or revision like 2023 to 2024. Of course, it could very much payoff and put Ferrari in a place where they can explore new avenues of development. But there's significant downside risk as well.

I'm no F1 engineer though and I'm sure they have more than enough data support the decision. Fingers crossed it works out.

It’s not like the kinematics of the front pull rod had changed. They have experience from 2012-2014 period.

Not to mention the rear pull rod they’ve been using all these last few years.

In any case, the modelling of the suspension—either kinematics, stress analysis, or wheel spring rates—will be the least of their problems since these can easily be modelled and assessed. Same for the aero impact of the choice of suspension linkages configuration, using CFD and WT.

The one area they potentially can go wrong is in the choice of target parameters like camber gain, rising rates, etc., though I would expect that they could build in some adjustability—even through use of new parts—so they’re not painted into a corner with their choices.

[mstar]

https://formulapassion--pro-ey-r-appspo ... r_pto=wapp

Fred saying the sf25 is a beast but on paper. Hope it matches the simulations

Gives me Mercedes vibes every Dec/Jan/Feb....

[mstar]

I must admit i am a little skeptical how the new front end change works. Charles is so dependant on the front end feel, i guess if your going to do it. its now.

What is the main reason? Aero gain??

[ing.]

I must admit i am a little skeptical how the new front end change works. Charles is so dependant on the front end feel, i guess if your going to do it. its now.

What is the main reason? Aero gain??

Ultimately the choice of push/pull configuration—apart from weight and CG considerations—is driven by aero compatibility, as explained by Newey here:

https://www.formulapassion.it/f1/f1-ana ... lta-perche

As regards front end effectiveness and feel, this is mainly determined by kinematic geometry and spring/roll rate choices that can be tailored into either push or pull configurations.

[deadhead]

It seemed like LEC was really comfortable with the launch F1-75 front end so if they want him to go fast I guess lean towards that end of the spectrum. I’m sure it’s not that simple, of course, but at least they have a reference point of some sort.

HAM is an enigma, some say he likes strong rear (so like Vettel?) others say front so..

Hopefully their styles aren’t too different because that would sucks for the engineers.

[ScuderiaLeo]

It seemed like LEC was really comfortable with the launch F1-75 front end so if they want him to go fast I guess lean towards that end of the spectrum. I’m sure it’s not that simple, of course, but at least they have a reference point of some sort.

HAM is an enigma, some say he likes strong rear (so like Vettel?) others say front so..

Hopefully their styles aren’t too different because that would sucks for the engineers.

I doubt Ferrari has been making cars with weak front ends on purpose. They seem to unintentionally loop back to it every season while chasing other development goals.

But this is why getting new, young engineers who can bring other perspectives is so important.

[dialtone]

I doubt Ferrari has been making cars with weak front ends on purpose. They seem to unintentionally loop back to it every season while chasing other development goals.

But this is why getting new, young engineers who can bring other perspectives is so important.

I don’t think that’s how it happens practically.

Through the season they go look for aero efficiency, weight savings/distribution and increasing downforce around the car. If you are limited on the front downforce development you will eventually have balance moving to the rear just by virtue of finding it more easily there, and you typically never refuse to add it.

[Farnborough]

Interesting that the two most successful chassis of this era in rules have both been of same basic suspension orientation, RB & McL taking the various championship.

It's certainly no guarantee that its core reason, but this must produce enquiry within the Ferrari design team as to what they can see in that with their own evaluation and measured against their own known data accumulation of internal performance.

At a guess, they've identified something that they feel brings performance by commitment to change front layout.

Newey stated that he favoured the pull layout for measurable front end flow potential, I believe.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Excuse me if it was posted and I missed it, but was the rumor of Ferrari moving away from Brembo true?

[Z-one]

Excuse me if it was posted and I missed it, but was the rumor of Ferrari moving away from Brembo true?

not true，just a fake news

[PlatinumZealot]

We need to produce an equal or better car to actually grasp the title chances in our hands, rather than just hoping it slips through Mclaren's fingers in our favor.

And to get such a car with a higher performance floor and ceiling, we clearly need to take some more chances on design. It's risky, but it must be done.

"We" ??

Next year will be fun..

[PlatinumZealot]

Interesting that the two most successful chassis of this era in rules have both been of same basic suspension orientation, RB & McL taking the various championship.

It's certainly no guarantee that its core reason, but this must produce enquiry within the Ferrari design team as to what they can see in that with their own evaluation and measured against their own known data accumulation of internal performance.

At a guess, they've identified something that they feel brings performance by commitment to change front layout.

Newey stated that he favoured the pull layout for measurable front end flow potential, I believe.

Yeah. That little arrangement of front pull rod does seem to be giving that tiny percent better airflow to the front of the floor and is worth pursuing.

[Farnborough]

Interesting that the two most successful chassis of this era in rules have both been of same basic suspension orientation, RB & McL taking the various championship.

It's certainly no guarantee that its core reason, but this must produce enquiry within the Ferrari design team as to what they can see in that with their own evaluation and measured against their own known data accumulation of internal performance.

At a guess, they've identified something that they feel brings performance by commitment to change front layout.

Newey stated that he favoured the pull layout for measurable front end flow potential, I believe.

Yeah. That little arrangement of front pull rod does seem to be giving that tiny percent better airflow to the front of the floor and is worth pursuing.

Making it clear that it's my perception in this view, the flow path from outer edges of front wing flap (inside tire face) through past the brake duct, then over the "foot" on rear of that duct, onto "primary" outside located barge board, is all enhanced by removing that push rod strut. This to shed more wake outboard of sidepod to amalgamate with flow pushed outward in front of tire by those twisted front wing end plates.

This may make the whole flow structure there less susceptible to wheel turning and yaw effect, ultimately to give improvement in linearity of front end flow structure.

As I've noted, they'll have comprehensive data from their own pushrod layout as competent baseline against which they can model (in cfd etc ) to give valid predictions in making this decision. They seem to have noted this earlier in the season, with claims made indicating a change here was their direction. Certainly enough time to comprehensively evaluate and not just jumping onto something else of another's design that some comments seem to imply.