2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[TyreSlip]

In retrospective, I think Fallows was fired during the Imola weekend by Lawrence. That was the weekend Lawrence started shopping for Cardile and Newey. It was the weekend that a big argument was heard between Fallows and Lawrence.

I didn't know there was a big argument. It would make sense he was quiet fired in April/May because Fallows alluded to being "checked out" from the team during the summer.

[KimiRai]

In retrospective, I think Fallows was fired during the Imola weekend by Lawrence. That was the weekend Lawrence started shopping for Cardile and Newey. It was the weekend that a big argument was heard between Fallows and Lawrence.

I didn't know there was a big argument. It would make sense he was quiet fired in April/May because Fallows alluded to being "checked out" from the team during the summer.

Around that time or shortly after a cascade of rumours appeared where multiple people were being approached. As diffuser said Lawrence had lost patience, it was said he threw mobile phones during the Imola weekend.

[KimiRai]

Alonso has called for radical changes to the 2025 car. No giving up on 2025. Hopefully he gets his wish granted.

Also will we see front pullrod like Ferrari? No news on that yet... or any aspect of the car really apart from what is being said on Mercedes' rear suspension. Just some website which said AMR25 could be fairly different.

[SSJ4]

if we can create something thats capable of challenging for podiums that would be cool. if not we can tank more for that sweet atr time that newey will need

[zoroastar]

Just read my post. I repeated the rumours that Newey is neither a friend of Whitmarsh nor Fallows and both are out now.

In the case of Whitmarsh this could also be a coincidence, as he is 66 and simply retirering (and there was a orderly handover to Cowell - at least it seems so).

But in the case of Fallows, AMR would be crazy not to consult Newey before moving him away, without his approval.

Newey said that he is a friend of the "traditional structure" with the 3 departments (aero, design/engineering and perfomance), like at RBR. So it wouldn't wonder me if Cardile will be "his Wache", who oversees the 3 departments, with himself being the creative freethinker.

Whitmarsh was always planning on leaving when the Silverstone site was done. That was the main reason he was brought in. That and he fostered in the Honda partnership. Cowell was announced on July 1st before Newey and it was over 3 months that tge had been looking for a replacement for Whitmarsh. Before Newey was evennknown to be on the Market. He's not leaving cause of Newey.

Just cause 2 people aren't friendly, doesn't mean you cannot recognize the talent in the other person. They've worked together for over a decade, now it's no longer possible?

supposedly the word on the paddock was that Fallows started angling to get away from aston around the time of the newey announcement. they didnt specifically say that it was because of newey, but seems like it would be a good reason since the timelines match. thats what i gathered at least. if thats true, it seems like they both know that they dont want to work together again. could just be that fallows doesnt want to be under neweys shadow anymore. maybe newey weirds him out. we will probably never know i dont think he will be back though. it would be cool if he was though, and all that is just bad rumors

[Sherrinford]

Let's not forget the 8 podiums and the 2023 car. At least up to Austria (except Brazil and Zandvoort). So there was talent in the technical department, but it lost its way. Just put things in the right direction again

[diffuser]

Just read my post. I repeated the rumours that Newey is neither a friend of Whitmarsh nor Fallows and both are out now.

In the case of Whitmarsh this could also be a coincidence, as he is 66 and simply retirering (and there was a orderly handover to Cowell - at least it seems so).

But in the case of Fallows, AMR would be crazy not to consult Newey before moving him away, without his approval.

Newey said that he is a friend of the "traditional structure" with the 3 departments (aero, design/engineering and perfomance), like at RBR. So it wouldn't wonder me if Cardile will be "his Wache", who oversees the 3 departments, with himself being the creative freethinker.

Whitmarsh was always planning on leaving when the Silverstone site was done. That was the main reason he was brought in. That and he fostered in the Honda partnership. Cowell was announced on July 1st before Newey and it was over 3 months that tge had been looking for a replacement for Whitmarsh. Before Newey was evennknown to be on the Market. He's not leaving cause of Newey.

Just cause 2 people aren't friendly, doesn't mean you cannot recognize the talent in the other person. They've worked together for over a decade, now it's no longer possible?

supposedly the word on the paddock was that Fallows started angling to get away from aston around the time of the newey announcement. they didnt specifically say that it was because of newey, but seems like it would be a good reason since the timelines match. thats what i gathered at least. if thats true, it seems like they both know that they dont want to work together again. could just be that fallows doesnt want to be under neweys shadow anymore. maybe newey weirds him out. we will probably never know i dont think he will be back though. it would be cool if he was though, and all that is just bad rumors

Yeah, I think it was more like tyreslip said "Fallows was checked out". He was already told by Lawrence that he wasn't coming back. A fall out with Newey sounds so childish.

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

Let's not forget the 8 podiums and the 2023 car. At least up to Austria (except Brazil and Zandvoort). So there was talent in the technical department, but it lost its way. Just put things in the right direction again

I wouldn't say so! In 2023 Aston went with huge wings compare to other teams. Those big wings added a huge stability downforce and amazing tyre handle for the car. But was a big problem, those wings was illegal because did bend to much . They floor was very primitive compare to Redbull or other teams so while Redbull downforce came from the floor ,Aston downforce came from the wings. After FIA banned their wings they switched to Redbull style low profile wings but at the same time they floor was still very weak, so their car balance, downforce and tyres handles became quite poor. Rest is history ...

[-wkst-]

3 of this 8 podiums were achieved after the front wing ban. I think this explanation is too simple, moreover I think noone here can judge if a floor is primitive or extremely developed. At least their first floor in 2023 gave them stable DF that the car was very predictable.

And as the flexiwings are back and obviously not banned for 2025, they can build their new car with the same philosophy as 2023 again. Strong in slow speed, with the bending also balanced in high speed. Let's see what Mercedes is doing at the rear, AMR at the front suspension. It's far from over.

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

3 of this 8 podiums were achieved after the front wing ban. I think this explanation is too simple, moreover I think noone here can judge if a floor is primitive or extremely developed. At least their first floor in 2023 gave them stable DF that the car was very predictable.

And as the flexiwings are back and obviously not banned for 2025, they can build their new car with the same philosophy as 2023 again. Strong in slow speed, with the bending also balanced in high speed. Let's see what Mercedes is doing at the rear, AMR at the front suspension. It's far from over.

In f1 there are no miracle! 2026 maybe will be better,but 25 will be the same as 24 unfortunately.

[zoroastar]

[diffuser]

Let's not forget the 8 podiums and the 2023 car. At least up to Austria (except Brazil and Zandvoort). So there was talent in the technical department, but it lost its way. Just put things in the right direction again

I wouldn't say so! In 2023 Aston went with huge wings compare to other teams. Those big wings added a huge stability downforce and amazing tyre handle for the car. But was a big problem, those wings was illegal because did bend to much . They floor was very primitive compare to Redbull or other teams so while Redbull downforce came from the floor ,Aston downforce came from the wings. After FIA banned their wings they switched to Redbull style low profile wings but at the same time they floor was still very weak, so their car balance, downforce and tyres handles became quite poor. Rest is history ...

The fact that they never ran a low DF beam wing would support that argument. They created one but never ran it in Quali or race. They've pretty much stuck to a form of double beam wing.

[diffuser]

3 of this 8 podiums were achieved after the front wing ban. I think this explanation is too simple, moreover I think noone here can judge if a floor is primitive or extremely developed. At least their first floor in 2023 gave them stable DF that the car was very predictable.

And as the flexiwings are back and obviously not banned for 2025, they can build their new car with the same philosophy as 2023 again. Strong in slow speed, with the bending also balanced in high speed. Let's see what Mercedes is doing at the rear, AMR at the front suspension. It's far from over.

I've talked about this before.... no team decides to build their car with poor mechanical grip, poor low speed traction or draggy at high speed. They just build the best they can and naturally it will have different traits than other cars.

The expression "The stopwatch doesn't lie" is true in 2 ways. It's true when comparing to other cars, that exposes your strength and weaknesses. It's also true when comparing yourself against you're previous year's model. We clearly see that the AMR24 is 1 second faster than the AMR23, so they did make it faster. The problem, is most teams improved more. AMR24 didn´t improve after Suzuka.

[diffuser]

Thinking about he Fallows saga.
Scenario 1 - Maybe Lawrence gave Fallows an ultimatum, "You got till the end of the year to get it straightened out or you're toast.¨
Scenario 2 - is that he was pretty much a bystander after Imola.

I find Scenario 1 more palatable. If Scenario 2 is true ... well we don´t have much hope for the AMR25, cause it means, the same guys that were choosing direction for post Imola upgrades will be making them for the 2025 car.


Clearly, Fallows was part of Lawrence's Plan A. Sometime during/after Imola, Lawrence started working on his ¨plan B¨.

Welcome to the Cardille and Newey show! Plan B +2.

[-wkst-]

3 of this 8 podiums were achieved after the front wing ban. I think this explanation is too simple, moreover I think noone here can judge if a floor is primitive or extremely developed. At least their first floor in 2023 gave them stable DF that the car was very predictable.

And as the flexiwings are back and obviously not banned for 2025, they can build their new car with the same philosophy as 2023 again. Strong in slow speed, with the bending also balanced in high speed. Let's see what Mercedes is doing at the rear, AMR at the front suspension. It's far from over.

It's also true when comparing yourself against you're previous year's model. We clearly see that the AMR24 is 1 second faster than the AMR23, so they did make it faster. The problem, is most teams improved more. AMR24 didn´t improve after Suzuka.

Yes and no.

In 2023 they were much more competitive in the race compared to the qualification. In 2024 its the other way round.

As the drivers and engineers said multiple times this year: the AMR24 can use the fresh rubber very good, with the effect that it uses too much of them in the race...

The working window of the car was much bigger in early 2023 too.