I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

[CMSMJ1]

You have completely missed the point, do you understand the meaning of the phrase ‘most likely’ ? read again what I wrote. Now answer me and yourself, why is it that over 90% of engineers are men? 10 years ago it was still 97%vs 3% in favour of men. on the other hand, why are those working as nurses still 99% women?
Stop this woke and diversity BS. You want a woman in F1, please go ahaed, she will be lapped 3 times in a race distance...

Why is it that certain types of blokes get their knickers in a twist about the possibility of a woman competing in F1?

There will be a woman in F1 when the legacy thoughts that they only want to play with dolls is put to bed. It is (mainly) a meritocracy and I think that there will be someplace/sometime a lady capable, willing and motivated.

It'll be harder for them however with the proponents of "Stop this woke and diversity BS" trying to put it down.

I'd ask - why would you not think it a pretty cool thing if there was a woman who was capable? Why is that bad?

My local karting place has several fast young women - were they to read this, what are they taking from it? That middle aged guys really are bloody stuck in their ways?

The people who could make it easy (as they are 90% of the industry) are refusing to do so because....what, exactly?

[pob]

Besides, Lawrence Stroll also has a daughter!!! so we have the same environment, we have the same amount of money etc etc. Why is Lance in F1 and not Chloe?!?

Victoria Verstappen, Max's sister, had the natural talent to get far: she was better than Max in the wet in karts.

Here is Sophie, their mother, in the 1995 European Championship, racing against the likes of Jenson Button:

[woocasz]

Besides, Lawrence Stroll also has a daughter!!! so we have the same environment, we have the same amount of money etc etc. Why is Lance in F1 and not Chloe?!?

Victoria Verstappen, Max's sister, had the natural talent to get far: she was better than Max in the wet in karts.

Here is Sophie, their mother, in the 1995 European Championship, racing against the likes of Jenson Button:
https://streamable.com/5d0utu

"Max has a younger sister named Victoria, who he once said had the same talent behind the wheel as him, but there was one simple reason she isn't still driving today."

"I think my sister probably had the same amount of talent as I had when I was little, but she just didn't want it enough," he told RaceFans in September 2023.

"She liked it but not enough to, like, fight for it, be fit, be ready. That's fine, as long as you realise that."

"There were a few instances where my dad would spend two days preparing everything like he would do with me, making sure everything was perfect for her to drive."

"Then she would drive for like 20 laps, and then she's like, 'That's it for me for today'. And then my dad would get quite annoyed."


thats what Im talking about!!!!

for the record, I personally have no objection to women driving in F1 as long as they are fast enough, simple as that. as the example of Max's sister showed, talent is not everything, it takes a lot more than that and I am afraid a female will never have that.

[Hoffman900]

The “want it” thing applies to every gender though. Deion Sanders, who is unquestionably one of the best athletes in US sports history, said his cousin was even faster and more athletic than him, except he was too busy selling drugs and being a goofball to ever pursue it.

Same with F1 drivers. Lewis, Max, and the like are there on pure talent alone, but it shouldn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of “pro” drivers in all series come from wealthy families and money. By virtue being from money doesn’t make one inherently more talented behind the wheel, it allows them to have the best equipment and the most track time (which comes at a cost let alone the consumables)

The best “natural” talent out there will likely never step foot on a race track.

I think we’ve all grown up with naturally freakish talented and academic people who never tapped into their potential because they didn’t want it.

But let’s look at numbers from an American Football perspective:

Over 1 million play high school football in the United States. Of that 1 million, 2.7% go on to play Division 1 NCAA football, of D1 football players, only 1.6% go pro. Of that 1.6%, the average career length is 3 years.

There are talented enough people who never go D1 and furthermore pro, they just weren’t disicplined enough.

Football is much more democratic than racing, since it’s not an equipment sport. Even Ayrton Senna almost never was when he ran out of family money and had to find another backer.

[mwillems]

Besides, Lawrence Stroll also has a daughter!!! so we have the same environment, we have the same amount of money etc etc. Why is Lance in F1 and not Chloe?!?

Victoria Verstappen, Max's sister, had the natural talent to get far: she was better than Max in the wet in karts.

Here is Sophie, their mother, in the 1995 European Championship, racing against the likes of Jenson Button:
https://streamable.com/5d0utu

"Max has a younger sister named Victoria, who he once said had the same talent behind the wheel as him, but there was one simple reason she isn't still driving today."

"I think my sister probably had the same amount of talent as I had when I was little, but she just didn't want it enough," he told RaceFans in September 2023.

"She liked it but not enough to, like, fight for it, be fit, be ready. That's fine, as long as you realise that."

"There were a few instances where my dad would spend two days preparing everything like he would do with me, making sure everything was perfect for her to drive."

"Then she would drive for like 20 laps, and then she's like, 'That's it for me for today'. And then my dad would get quite annoyed."


thats what Im talking about!!!!

for the record, I personally have no objection to women driving in F1 as long as they are fast enough, simple as that. as the example of Max's sister showed, talent is not everything, it takes a lot more than that and I am afraid a female will never have that.

Have you seen this thing called the Olympics? It has 10500 competitors with over 5000 being women. I don't really want to argue with you , but reality strongly disagrees with your statement.

[pob]

Besides, Lawrence Stroll also has a daughter!!! so we have the same environment, we have the same amount of money etc etc. Why is Lance in F1 and not Chloe?!?

Victoria Verstappen, Max's sister, had the natural talent to get far: she was better than Max in the wet in karts.

Here is Sophie, their mother, in the 1995 European Championship, racing against the likes of Jenson Button:
https://streamable.com/5d0utu

"Max has a younger sister named Victoria, who he once said had the same talent behind the wheel as him, but there was one simple reason she isn't still driving today."

"I think my sister probably had the same amount of talent as I had when I was little, but she just didn't want it enough," he told RaceFans in September 2023.

"She liked it but not enough to, like, fight for it, be fit, be ready. That's fine, as long as you realise that."

"There were a few instances where my dad would spend two days preparing everything like he would do with me, making sure everything was perfect for her to drive."

"Then she would drive for like 20 laps, and then she's like, 'That's it for me for today'. And then my dad would get quite annoyed."


thats what Im talking about!!!!

for the record, I personally have no objection to women driving in F1 as long as they are fast enough, simple as that. as the example of Max's sister showed, talent is not everything, it takes a lot more than that and I am afraid a female will never have that.

In Max's case, a lot of his drive to succeed comes vicariously from Jos. Sophie protected Victoria from some of Jos's "parenting techniques" which were borderline child abuse. Do you think Jos would have put up with Max saying 'That's it for me for today' when he left Max to walk 5 miles home after one bad karting race?

Most young karters have an ambitious parent behind them pushing them on. Maybe it is less likely that a parent will do that for a daughter?

[RonMexico]

Why are all the top chess players men?

[hollus]

Have you read the reference to Judit Polgar above?

[CMSMJ1]

Why are all the top chess players men?

Not replying at you RonMexico but this is my own view and your question is a good one to go from
It's easy to see in this thread that the world remains a "white man's" and any deviation from that and the heavy weight of that needs to be shed before any 'progress' can be made.

Men have all the opportunity, all the role models and the societal structure to do it. I know I can pretty much do whatever I want to in the world.

Non White men have some of the same masculine privilige but in some areas there is yet racism holding the invisible hand

Women - they've had it hard forever....and with atitudes that they cannot do 'X' because they could not beat a man, or shall not do 'Y' because they might not look nice doing it?? WTF...

Maybe we are so far at the start of the curve for equal opportunity we just cannot see what the end looks like?

[woocasz]

Why are all the top chess players men?

Not replying at you RonMexico but this is my own view and your question is a good one to go from
It's easy to see in this thread that the world remains a "white man's" and any deviation from that and the heavy weight of that needs to be shed before any 'progress' can be made.

Men have all the opportunity, all the role models and the societal structure to do it. I know I can pretty much do whatever I want to in the world.

Non White men have some of the same masculine privilige but in some areas there is yet racism holding the invisible hand

Women - they've had it hard forever....and with atitudes that they cannot do 'X' because they could not beat a man, or shall not do 'Y' because they might not look nice doing it?? WTF...

Maybe we are so far at the start of the curve for equal opportunity we just cannot see what the end looks like?

Have you ever heard of such a Professor Jordan Peterson? If no, watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YthgwSaEkcw

another thing, as I mentioned before, stop this woke BS for God sake.
"white men" "white privilige" "systemic racism"
It's 2025 and you still believe this nonsense?

What is it that a woman can't do, that a man can do in today's world? (the same applies to blacks) If what you write were true, Obama wouldn't have been president of the most powerful country in the world for 10 years, and Hamilton wouldn't have been an eight-time world champion (yes, Lewis should be WDC in 2021).

[woocasz]

Why are all the top chess players men?

Not replying at you RonMexico but this is my own view and your question is a good one to go from
It's easy to see in this thread that the world remains a "white man's" and any deviation from that and the heavy weight of that needs to be shed before any 'progress' can be made.

Men have all the opportunity, all the role models and the societal structure to do it. I know I can pretty much do whatever I want to in the world.

Non White men have some of the same masculine privilige but in some areas there is yet racism holding the invisible hand

Women - they've had it hard forever....and with atitudes that they cannot do 'X' because they could not beat a man, or shall not do 'Y' because they might not look nice doing it?? WTF...

Maybe we are so far at the start of the curve for equal opportunity we just cannot see what the end looks like?

have you heard of such a term as egalitarianism?
‘the belief that all people are equally important and should have the same rights and opportunities in life’.

guess what, they tried that in Scandinavia and guess what: it didn't work!!!

another fantastic speech form prof. Peterson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iudkPi4_sY

"one of the things you want to ask yourself is that , what is the purpose of setting up a society that offers maximal equality of opportunity and one of the answer is that you maximize people`s free choice and if you maximize free choice than you also maximize differences in choice between people and so you cant have both" !!!

[CMSMJ1]

Why are all the top chess players men?

Not replying at you RonMexico but this is my own view and your question is a good one to go from
It's easy to see in this thread that the world remains a "white man's" and any deviation from that and the heavy weight of that needs to be shed before any 'progress' can be made.

Men have all the opportunity, all the role models and the societal structure to do it. I know I can pretty much do whatever I want to in the world.

Non White men have some of the same masculine privilige but in some areas there is yet racism holding the invisible hand

Women - they've had it hard forever....and with atitudes that they cannot do 'X' because they could not beat a man, or shall not do 'Y' because they might not look nice doing it?? WTF...

Maybe we are so far at the start of the curve for equal opportunity we just cannot see what the end looks like?

Have you ever heard of such a Professor Jordan Peterson? If no, watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YthgwSaEkcw

another thing, as I mentioned before, stop this woke BS for God sake.
"white men" "white privilige" "systemic racism"
It's 2025 and you still believe this nonsense?

What is it that a woman can't do, that a man can do in today's world? (the same applies to blacks) If what you write were true, Obama wouldn't have been president of the most powerful country in the world for 10 years, and Hamilton wouldn't have been an eight-time world champion (yes, Lewis should be WDC in 2021).

We're not doing the politics in here, and neither, AD21 too - so leave it out please.

[CMSMJ1]

Why are all the top chess players men?

Not replying at you RonMexico but this is my own view and your question is a good one to go from
It's easy to see in this thread that the world remains a "white man's" and any deviation from that and the heavy weight of that needs to be shed before any 'progress' can be made.

Men have all the opportunity, all the role models and the societal structure to do it. I know I can pretty much do whatever I want to in the world.

Non White men have some of the same masculine privilige but in some areas there is yet racism holding the invisible hand

Women - they've had it hard forever....and with atitudes that they cannot do 'X' because they could not beat a man, or shall not do 'Y' because they might not look nice doing it?? WTF...

Maybe we are so far at the start of the curve for equal opportunity we just cannot see what the end looks like?

have you heard of such a term as egalitarianism?
‘the belief that all people are equally important and should have the same rights and opportunities in life’.

guess what, they tried that in Scandinavia and guess what: it didn't work!!!

another fantastic speech form prof. Peterson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvATeDfJgBw

I'm going to stick my neck out and guess you are from the US?
People don't have the same opportuntity - women have not had the same opportunity that they were able to take advantage of.

I would love to see a woman in F1 but.... The thread has identified no phsyical, mental or individual reason that it cannot happen?

Leaves it looking like a societal issue? As it once was for Lewis and has been in other mainstream sports.


to add:
I'm not going to watch that video - that is not I want in my youtube algorythm - let's have well away from that kind of politicking on here

[TimW]

The irony of having 3 pages of discussion about how women are not strong enough to press the brake pedal, when its force is set a software parameter, and the same people arguing that women do not face prejudice.

[mwillems]

The irony of having 3 pages of discussion about how women are not strong enough to press the brake pedal, when its force is set a software parameter, and the same people arguing that women do not face prejudice.

It's literally been all over the thread, so many people not even aware that their replies are totally set up to say "Show us why we should take our barrier down". In many cases throwing out the nearest ill pondered idea as to why women aren't capable of being in motorsport.

This has been a real eye opener, the percentage of posters that are subconsciously biased and stubbornly sticking to it. In several cases by people with a lot of technical knowledge who wouldn't tolerate that kind of lazy talk about an F1 car in the tech threads. It's not a criticism of the site, it's the world at large, but it really is an eye opener.

it's nice to see the mods stepping in and setting a good example, letting the conversation flow even in some of the more obnoxious posts and challenging it politely, that element of the discourse I am happy about, it sets a good example for the site. It's good that those who are bothered by some of the bias have also not risen to it too much. Last night I had to step away, or I was going to say something I'd regret.