Mercedes W16 Speculation Thread

[mclaren_mircea]

It is time to start it. Last years the discussions about the speculation on the next year cars started much much earlier. Game on for the Mercedes car.
Rumours from AMUS are saying that they will focus on the mecanical parts at the rear of the car. Mercedes engineers believe that on the rear axle it is the mother of all bads with the W15. To sensitive, to smal window, to weak on warmer tracks and rear limited tracks. They believe the basics of the aerodynamics upon wich they want to build are not bad.
They believe that victories on complex tracks like Silverstone and Spa are demonstration of this fact. But again, they might be wrong because they were helped by colder conditions. So, lets start the Mercedes thread.

[Lasssept]

FUnoAT:

Mercedes 2025: new mechanics to evolve the rear end

Engineers are working on the chassis of the 2025 car through a re-design of the suspension attachment points and engine attachments to the chassis itself. By changing the location where the arms meet the vehicle body, a greater anti-lift, anti-squat and anti-dive angle has been sought. This will provide superior stability with respect to longitudinal acceleration. The slight variation in these angles reduces the pitching of the single-seater, limits the separation of the fluid vein from the surfaces, and reduces the loss of downforce due to load shifting.

This makes the car more stable on corner entry, especially at the rear, where oversteer is filed down. The points where the power unit is attached to the chassis may also have been modified, within the limits of the regulations. We know that the power system, together with the gearbox, given the total weight of about 300 kg, is a key element in giving stiffness to the whole vehicle. Engineers at the Brixworth team changed the attachment points to reduce the torque of the power unit relative to the longitudinal plane of the single-seater.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... -2025.html

[mclaren_mircea]

FUnoAT:

Mercedes 2025: new mechanics to evolve the rear end

Engineers are working on the chassis of the 2025 car through a re-design of the suspension attachment points and engine attachments to the chassis itself. By changing the location where the arms meet the vehicle body, a greater anti-lift, anti-squat and anti-dive angle has been sought. This will provide superior stability with respect to longitudinal acceleration. The slight variation in these angles reduces the pitching of the single-seater, limits the separation of the fluid vein from the surfaces, and reduces the loss of downforce due to load shifting.

This makes the car more stable on corner entry, especially at the rear, where oversteer is filed down. The points where the power unit is attached to the chassis may also have been modified, within the limits of the regulations. We know that the power system, together with the gearbox, given the total weight of about 300 kg, is a key element in giving stiffness to the whole vehicle. Engineers at the Brixworth team changed the attachment points to reduce the torque of the power unit relative to the longitudinal plane of the single-seater.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... -2025.html

Thanks for the infos and for the post. I kindly apreciate, because it just a little bit annoying that the other cars have already more than one page of discussions. I dont want to think that the Mercedes fans are not even in the first 5 or 6 cars regarding the interest about the car. Lets make it a little bit warmer the thread despite this cold winter

[Macklaren]

Any word on cockpit placement now that lewis is gone?

[Vappy]

FUnoAT:

Mercedes 2025: new mechanics to evolve the rear end

Engineers are working on the chassis of the 2025 car through a re-design of the suspension attachment points and engine attachments to the chassis itself. By changing the location where the arms meet the vehicle body, a greater anti-lift, anti-squat and anti-dive angle has been sought. This will provide superior stability with respect to longitudinal acceleration. The slight variation in these angles reduces the pitching of the single-seater, limits the separation of the fluid vein from the surfaces, and reduces the loss of downforce due to load shifting.

This makes the car more stable on corner entry, especially at the rear, where oversteer is filed down. The points where the power unit is attached to the chassis may also have been modified, within the limits of the regulations. We know that the power system, together with the gearbox, given the total weight of about 300 kg, is a key element in giving stiffness to the whole vehicle. Engineers at the Brixworth team changed the attachment points to reduce the torque of the power unit relative to the longitudinal plane of the single-seater.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... -2025.html

I interpret this as going stiffer and lower, and while hamilton is gone now, it doesn't sound any more pliable or forgiving to drive.

[matteosc]

FUnoAT:

Mercedes 2025: new mechanics to evolve the rear end

Engineers are working on the chassis of the 2025 car through a re-design of the suspension attachment points and engine attachments to the chassis itself. By changing the location where the arms meet the vehicle body, a greater anti-lift, anti-squat and anti-dive angle has been sought. This will provide superior stability with respect to longitudinal acceleration. The slight variation in these angles reduces the pitching of the single-seater, limits the separation of the fluid vein from the surfaces, and reduces the loss of downforce due to load shifting.

This makes the car more stable on corner entry, especially at the rear, where oversteer is filed down. The points where the power unit is attached to the chassis may also have been modified, within the limits of the regulations. We know that the power system, together with the gearbox, given the total weight of about 300 kg, is a key element in giving stiffness to the whole vehicle. Engineers at the Brixworth team changed the attachment points to reduce the torque of the power unit relative to the longitudinal plane of the single-seater.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... -2025.html

I interpret this as going stiffer and lower, and while hamilton is gone now, it doesn't sound any more pliable or forgiving to drive.

Stiffer chassis doesn’t mean stiffer car (that’s something related to the suspensions), but it means less flections on the structure, that may have created issues in the past (speculation without specific bases).

[OverheatedTurbo]

FUnoAT:

Mercedes 2025: new mechanics to evolve the rear end

Engineers are working on the chassis of the 2025 car through a re-design of the suspension attachment points and engine attachments to the chassis itself. By changing the location where the arms meet the vehicle body, a greater anti-lift, anti-squat and anti-dive angle has been sought. This will provide superior stability with respect to longitudinal acceleration. The slight variation in these angles reduces the pitching of the single-seater, limits the separation of the fluid vein from the surfaces, and reduces the loss of downforce due to load shifting.

This makes the car more stable on corner entry, especially at the rear, where oversteer is filed down. The points where the power unit is attached to the chassis may also have been modified, within the limits of the regulations. We know that the power system, together with the gearbox, given the total weight of about 300 kg, is a key element in giving stiffness to the whole vehicle. Engineers at the Brixworth team changed the attachment points to reduce the torque of the power unit relative to the longitudinal plane of the single-seater.

https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... -2025.html

No mention of changing the front suspension config. to pull-rod. We’ll have to wait until the reveal/testing to confirm.

[PlatinumZealot]

The team has finally invented a liquid mercury compound that is stable and non-poisonous, thus fit for full exposure to the FIA. Yes. They should have no need to hide that little reservoir now; they can run a full sized "G-chamber" on this suspension component and get back that sweet sweet curb ride and squat characteristic their cars were once renowned for.

[Vaexa]

The team has finally invented a liquid mercury compound that is stable and non-poisonous, thus fit for full exposure to the FIA. Yes. They should have no need to hide that little reservoir now; they can run a full sized "G-chamber" on this suspension component and get back that sweet sweet curb ride and squat characteristic their cars were once renowned for.

Little early for April Fools, isn't it?

[GrizzleBoy]

It feels like if they had the ability to fix the instability at the rear of the car since 2022, they'd have done it. Or at least made some notable progress

Instead it's literally the same problem every year, with 2024s rear stability and predictability apparently being the worst according to the drivers.

Are they really going to go all in on a maybe-probably-not-a-fix fix for 2025 with the new regs coming in 2026? Probably not. It's likely just refinement and not a silver bullet of any kind. Which is expected to be fair.

[clownfish]

I interpret this as going stiffer and lower, and while hamilton is gone now, it doesn't sound any more pliable or forgiving to drive.

I would have thought that adding anti-squat and anti-dive means the suspension can be more compliant, given that body control is managed to a greater degree by the geometry rather than the dampers.

[Rodak]

From the original post on this topic:

Engineers are working on the chassis of the 2025 car through a re-design of the suspension attachment points and engine attachments to the chassis itself.

Sorry the engine attachment is by regulation.

From the 2025 Technical Regulations, 5.4.8 Power Unit Dimensions:

Engine (ICE) mountings may only comprise six M12 studs for connection to the survival cell
and either four or six M12 studs for connection to the transmission. These studs may be
fitted on the survival cell, engine or transmission, their installed end must be M12 and their
free end may be a different diameter. Every stud must have a tensile strength greater than
100kN.
The six mounting faces of the studs for connection to the survival cell must lie at
[XPU, Y, Z]=[0, ±215, 15], [0, ±340, 260] and [0, ±175, 420]. All six of these studs must be used.
Four mounting faces of the studs for connection to the transmission must lie at
[XPU, Y, Z]=[480, ±100, 15] and [480, ±255, 345]. All four of these studs must be used.
Optionally, an additional two studs may be used, provided their coordinates are at [XPU, Y, Z]=
[480, ±150, 140]
A tolerance of +/- 0.2mm will be permitted on all of the above dimensions, all dimensions
refer to the centre of the studs. All dimensions in this Article refer to studs fitted
symmetrically about the car centre plane.
Any part which provides an additional load path from the survival cell to the gearbox, with a
connection to the engine, may only do so if this is incidental to its principal purpose.