I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

[CMSMJ1]

If this thread is to be believed there is no need for a separate league. I have no opinion on that.

I'd suggest that something to pull the girls through up to a certain level would be useful. Once you are up to F4/F3 levels then it's only a game of talent (in my view) and so having mandated representation/positive discrimination would be a negative.

The pool for the women is small - make it bigger and maybe the talented one (tm) will be able to get through and then show her legmitimate pace.

F4 seems an appropriate level for women only - and perhaps the output from the F1 Academy should be an entry into F3 for 2 years. Sink or swim time....

[Peter Piper]

I think as with so many other things, it's an almost totally social issue with a few very minor physiological aspects as well. Male hand-eye coordination seems to be slightly superior to that of women, but I see no reason why that should really stop women from getting into F1 when drivers with broken hands and arms have managed to perform despite their injuries. In terms of physicality, F1 is physical, but only up to a point, after which you really gain no more benefits from strength, and that strength is very attainable for women.

Women would have no trouble getting into F1 if people pushed their young daughters into karts like they do with boys and there weren't any societal issues at play.

I do really think that once we see one woman get there on merit, we will probably see many more a decade or so later. Like I see no real reason why an F1 grid couldn't be 50/50 men and women, even if I do find that unrealistic because of social reasons. (re: sexism)

Yep, as you say societal issues and generalization of groups of people are key. I'd be interested to see the impact of Hamilton being a very visibly successful driver on the number of young black kart drivers.

[bananapeel23]

Yep, as you say societal issues and generalization of groups of people are key. I'd be interested to see the impact of Hamilton being a very visibly successful driver on the number of young black kart drivers.

I mean there are a few notable black people coming through the junior categories currently, most notably Ugochukwu. Hamilton has almost certainly broken the metaphorical ice.

But frankly I think money is the primary issue these days. Black people are underrepresented in the 1%, and you really have to be in the 1% to fund a karting, let alone a single seater career. (Though Ugo Ugochukwu does actually come from the relatively small group of black 1%ers)

Like there should be as many daughters of 1%ers as there are sons, but there aren’t very many black people in the 1% due to (again) societal issues. (Institutional racism)

So even if there isn’t anything stopping black people from making it to formula 1 with the appropriate funding levels, the amount of black kids with access to the funding required is very limited.

The amount of black people that can do a Stroll-esque bankrolling of their childrens junior career is extremely limited, meaning mostly freaks of nature with undeniable talent like Hamilton really get access to the money required.

Ironically that probably means that the black drivers we do end up seeing in the future will all be very, very good.

[woocasz]

Yep, as you say societal issues and generalization of groups of people are key. I'd be interested to see the impact of Hamilton being a very visibly successful driver on the number of young black kart drivers.

I mean there are a few notable black people coming through the junior categories currently, most notably Ugochukwu. Hamilton has almost certainly broken the metaphorical ice.

But frankly I think money is the primary issue these days. Black people are underrepresented in the 1%, and you really have to be in the 1% to fund a karting, let alone a single seater career. (Though Ugo Ugochukwu does actually come from the relatively small group of black 1%ers)

Like there should be as many daughters of 1%ers as there are sons, but there aren’t very many black people in the 1% due to (again) societal issues. (Institutional racism)

So even if there isn’t anything stopping black people from making it to formula 1 with the appropriate funding levels, the amount of black kids with access to the funding required is very limited.

The amount of black people that can do a Stroll-esque bankrolling of their childrens junior career is extremely limited, meaning mostly freaks of nature with undeniable talent like Hamilton really get access to the money required.

Ironically that probably means that the black drivers we do end up seeing in the future will all be very, very good.

"Institutional racism"
yet, another one with this nonsense.
show me one single piece of evidence that we have ‘Institutional racism’, any written law or statute that excludes any group of people or people of non-white skin colour? just one!!!
explain to me, if we have "Institutional racism" how did Obama become president of the USA for 10 years?
explain to me, how did Hamilton become a 7-time Formula 1 world champion?
name one thing that black man cant do, what white men can, in our society at this momemnt.
(dont forget that black people can be racist towards white people)

[hollus]

Politics off!
If you need to use the words w*** or r*****, you are in the wrong forum.
If needed, warnings will follow, for either/both sides.

Remember that the world contains hundreds of countries, each with different contexts, boundaries, culture and political systems. Attempting to generalize there is futile.

[bananapeel23]

"Institutional racism"
yet, another one with this nonsense.
show me one single piece of evidence that we have ‘Institutional racism’, any written law or statute that excludes any group of people or people of non-white skin colour? just one!!!
explain to me, if we have "Institutional racism" how did Obama become president of the USA for 10 years?
explain to me, how did Hamilton become a 7-time Formula 1 world champion?
name one thing that black man cant do, what white men can, in our society at this momemnt.
(dont forget that black people can be racist towards white people)

If you don’t want to use the term, then I’d suggest ”generational poverty” or ”lack of social mobility” as an alternative term that largely captures the same idea of racing being an extremely inaccessible sport if you don’t come from money.

Although I do believe there is more to it than that, but clearly the mods don’t appreciate people talking about that and I’ll respect that.

[woocasz]

ok, so I found this
Formula E, pre - season testing in Jamara.
This is probably the most reliable comparison in recent times
same cars, same track, same weather

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

It appears that the fastest woman would still come last if she raced against men.
She lost 1,6s to last men driver....

(How can I upload a screenshot from my computer?)

[CMSMJ1]

ok, so I found this
Formula E, pre - season testing in Jamara.
This is probably the most reliable comparison in recent times
same cars, same track, same weather

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

It appears that the fastest woman would still come last if she raced against men.
She lost 1,6s to last men driver....

(How can I upload a screenshot from my computer?)

I think if you're looking for this kind of data. Can you find F4 tatus times for tracks that both W series/academy vs perhaps the top tier national f4?

The formula E stuff is regular drivers vs female rookies. Not really apples to apples

[woocasz]

ok, so I found this
Formula E, pre - season testing in Jamara.
This is probably the most reliable comparison in recent times
same cars, same track, same weather

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

It appears that the fastest woman would still come last if she raced against men.
She lost 1,6s to last men driver....

(How can I upload a screenshot from my computer?)

I think if you're looking for this kind of data. Can you find F4 tatus times for tracks that both W series/academy vs perhaps the top tier national f4?

The formula E stuff is regular drivers vs female rookies. Not really apples to apples

Jamie Chadwick is a rookie? LOL
why dont you admit already that, women are far behind men in motorsport at the moment...
I think in the future we will see more women at a more competitive level, but for that we need time, money and more commitment from the FIA and the biggest companies in motorsport.

[CMSMJ1]

No. Women's rookie FE test.

We see women at a good level. There'll be a fast enough woman but she's just not turned up yet!

[hollus]

How to post a picture

[BassVirolla]

Yep, as you say societal issues and generalization of groups of people are key. I'd be interested to see the impact of Hamilton being a very visibly successful driver on the number of young black kart drivers.

I mean there are a few notable black people coming through the junior categories currently, most notably Ugochukwu. Hamilton has almost certainly broken the metaphorical ice.

But frankly I think money is the primary issue these days. Black people are underrepresented in the 1%, and you really have to be in the 1% to fund a karting, let alone a single seater career. (Though Ugo Ugochukwu does actually come from the relatively small group of black 1%ers)

Like there should be as many daughters of 1%ers as there are sons, but there aren’t very many black people in the 1% due to (again) societal issues. (Institutional racism)

So even if there isn’t anything stopping black people from making it to formula 1 with the appropriate funding levels, the amount of black kids with access to the funding required is very limited.

The amount of black people that can do a Stroll-esque bankrolling of their childrens junior career is extremely limited, meaning mostly freaks of nature with undeniable talent like Hamilton really get access to the money required.

Ironically that probably means that the black drivers we do end up seeing in the future will all be very, very good.

"Institutional racism"
yet, another one with this nonsense.
show me one single piece of evidence that we have ‘Institutional racism’, any written law or statute that excludes any group of people or people of non-white skin colour? just one!!!
explain to me, if we have "Institutional racism" how did Obama become president of the USA for 10 years?
explain to me, how did Hamilton become a 7-time Formula 1 world champion?
name one thing that black man cant do, what white men can, in our society at this momemnt.
(dont forget that black people can be racist towards white people)

More than institutional it's social.

More wealthy families gave best opportunities to their sons and nieces and so on.

And this come from long ago. Very, very long ago.

In a world where slavery was fully extended until "yesterday" in historical timescale, is naive to think that every black people has the same opportunities as every white people.

Nevertheless, there are black people much wealthier than me, being myself a caucasian.

It's a percentage matter. And it will not level anytime soon.

The same applies for women. Cultural and social changes take long time, and until then, the women pool is so small that the talent and ability is scarce.

Not a purely capacity thing. It's a matter of disposable pool of people in every people group (women, black, male, female, white, or whatever).

[mwillems]

ok, so I found this
Formula E, pre - season testing in Jamara.
This is probably the most reliable comparison in recent times
same cars, same track, same weather

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

https://resources.formula-e.pulselive.c ... height=720

It appears that the fastest woman would still come last if she raced against men.
She lost 1,6s to last men driver....

(How can I upload a screenshot from my computer?)

I think if you're looking for this kind of data. Can you find F4 tatus times for tracks that both W series/academy vs perhaps the top tier national f4?

The formula E stuff is regular drivers vs female rookies. Not really apples to apples

Jamie Chadwick is a rookie? LOL
why dont you admit already that, women are far behind men in motorsport at the moment...
I think in the future we will see more women at a more competitive level, but for that we need time, money and more commitment from the FIA and the biggest companies in motorsport.

Has someone taken over your keyboard?

Well I agree with you, though it is the smaller companies that might sponsor at grassroots level that need to stump up. That's where putting the gender disparity in the spotlight helps create DEI based marketing opportunities. Teams are already starting to do their bit, FIA are starting to make progress.

But as we discovered in this thread, there's a diverse range of attitudes about how much and what needs to be done.

Worth pointing out that the basis underpinning this thread is that women are behind men at this point so no.one needs to admit that.

[woocasz]

I mean there are a few notable black people coming through the junior categories currently, most notably Ugochukwu. Hamilton has almost certainly broken the metaphorical ice.

But frankly I think money is the primary issue these days. Black people are underrepresented in the 1%, and you really have to be in the 1% to fund a karting, let alone a single seater career. (Though Ugo Ugochukwu does actually come from the relatively small group of black 1%ers)

Like there should be as many daughters of 1%ers as there are sons, but there aren’t very many black people in the 1% due to (again) societal issues. (Institutional racism)

So even if there isn’t anything stopping black people from making it to formula 1 with the appropriate funding levels, the amount of black kids with access to the funding required is very limited.

The amount of black people that can do a Stroll-esque bankrolling of their childrens junior career is extremely limited, meaning mostly freaks of nature with undeniable talent like Hamilton really get access to the money required.

Ironically that probably means that the black drivers we do end up seeing in the future will all be very, very good.

"Institutional racism"
yet, another one with this nonsense.
show me one single piece of evidence that we have ‘Institutional racism’, any written law or statute that excludes any group of people or people of non-white skin colour? just one!!!
explain to me, if we have "Institutional racism" how did Obama become president of the USA for 10 years?
explain to me, how did Hamilton become a 7-time Formula 1 world champion?
name one thing that black man cant do, what white men can, in our society at this momemnt.
(dont forget that black people can be racist towards white people)

More than institutional it's social.

More wealthy families gave best opportunities to their sons and nieces and so on.

And this come from long ago. Very, very long ago.

In a world where slavery was fully extended until "yesterday" in historical timescale, is naive to think that every black people has the same opportunities as every white people.

Nevertheless, there are black people much wealthier than me, being myself a caucasian.

It's a percentage matter. And it will not level anytime soon.

The same applies for women. Cultural and social changes take long time, and until then, the women pool is so small that the talent and ability is scarce.

Not a purely capacity thing. It's a matter of disposable pool of people in every people group (women, black, male, female, white, or whatever).

what are you talking about??
You gave the example of slavery, which incidentally ended 160 years ago!!! are you telling me that for 160 years ‘black families’ have not had the time and opportunity to improve their environment and society? come on man...
how do you explain that in the states the descendants of slaves are living and doing very well, most are even richer than ‘white’ families.
another example:in the NBA 70% of players are black. how? being descendants of slaves, how could they manage so well?

Im Polish.
during World War 2, more than 80% of my country was destroyed, literally, more than 6 million Polish citizens were killed by Germans and Russians. 85 years ago, our country did not exist, there was no government, no army, no schools, no universities.
where is my ‘white privilege’?

[hollus]

Politics off. Last friendly warning.