2025 McLaren F1 Team

[90feet]

Edit: Nope, the group has no shareholding in Automotive at all and automotive has no shareholding in Racing. From a legal entity standpoint, they are totally seperate.

The deal that sold Automotive to CYVN also gives them a "non-controlling stake" in Racing, but I don't think they ever announced any specifics related to that, e.g. exactly how big of a share they get. I'm guessing it's pretty small, like 5 or 10%, just to justify them sharing the name and the HQ. I'd also guess that they'll get rid of the Group at some point, since it's now just a "group" of one single company, and that'll clarify the ownership structure a bit, but at the moment it's kind of a mess.

[CjC]

Its not how many sponsors you have its the size. McLaren is no where Mercedes in sponsors revenue. Plus profit . McLaren hasn't had a title sponsor since vodafone

Right, and the conversation was about how older Mclaren sponsors signed on smaller rates are expiring and being replaced with much better deals for the team. Nobody mentioned the number of sponsors, I think, conversation was only about the increasing value of Mclaren sponsorship as a result of success.

I was corrected the guy saying McLaren has the same value to charge Mercedes rates.. Mercedes f1 the team is more profitable than McLaren automotive. And Mercedes was spending 1 billion and making profit before the budget cap

I think I get it.
Do you mean because Mercedes don’t necessarily need sponsorship to run the team they can ‘demand’ a higher rate off any new sponsor?
Where as McLaren need sponsorship to run the race team so will lower their rate for a new sponsor?

If so, it’s a valid point you make, however I did initially say if we just value the teams on the current ground effect era results then McLaren are more than a match in value as Mercedes, if either Lando or Oscar had won the 2024 WDC as well then in my opinion McLaren would be a more attractive proposition to sponsors than Mercedes.

[Henri]

Right, and the conversation was about how older Mclaren sponsors signed on smaller rates are expiring and being replaced with much better deals for the team. Nobody mentioned the number of sponsors, I think, conversation was only about the increasing value of Mclaren sponsorship as a result of success.

I was corrected the guy saying McLaren has the same value to charge Mercedes rates.. Mercedes f1 the team is more profitable than McLaren automotive. And Mercedes was spending 1 billion and making profit before the budget cap

I think I get it.
Do you mean because Mercedes don’t necessarily need sponsorship to run the team they can ‘demand’ a higher rate off any new sponsor?
Where as McLaren need sponsorship to run the race team so will lower their rate for a new sponsor?

If so, it’s a valid point you make, however I did initially say if we just value the teams on the current ground effect era results then McLaren are more than a match in value as Mercedes, if either Lando or Oscar had won the 2024 WDC as well then in my opinion McLaren would be a more attractive proposition to sponsors than Mercedes.

McLaren are a great historic team but no if a team can't attract a title sponsor than no. I mean McLaren was saved by the budget cap. Redbull Mercedes and Ferrari didnt care. McLaren hadcto sell there headquarters because of finance struggles and no sponsors

[Darth-Piekus]

Henri I don't want to sound disrespectful but Mclaren as a name is as high as Ferrari. Mercedes and Red Bull are nowhere near Mclaren in terms of history and an F1 name. F1 doesn't exist without Ferrari, Mclaren or Williams while nobody will care if Red Bull or Mercedes leave F1. It was always like this and it will always be like this. These 3 teams are F1. As for sponsors Mercedes who was dominant during 2014 to 2021 are nothing 3 years now and actually lost sponsors. Mclaren who was nothing during 2014 to 2021 and empty of sponsors are now on top and trying to find space in the car to put sponsors. Even Ferrari who used to be on top from 1999 to 2007 were insignificant 16 years now both in titles and sponsors (only recently they got HP and never had a good sponsor since Vodafone) and needed Hamilton to be on the spotlight. Things change and evolve and you should not take things for granted.

[-wkst-]

Henri I don't want to sound disrespectful but Mclaren as a name is as high as Ferrari. Mercedes and Red Bull are nowhere near Mclaren in terms of history and an F1 name. F1 doesn't exist without Ferrari, Mclaren or Williams while nobody will care if Red Bull or Mercedes leave F1. It was always like this and it will always be like this. These 3 teams are F1. As for sponsors Mercedes who was dominant during 2014 to 2021 are nothing 3 years now and actually lost sponsors. Mclaren who was nothing during 2014 to 2021 and empty of sponsors are now on top and trying to find space in the car to put sponsors. Even Ferrari who used to be on top from 1999 to 2007 were insignificant 16 years now both in titles and sponsors (only recently they got HP and never had a good sponsor since Vodafone) and needed Hamilton to be on the spotlight. Things change and evolve and you should not take things for granted.

I can tell you that my arguments were the same as I was younger, but history doesn't pay your bills, as happened to McLaren in 2020. Williams is anyway irrelevant for many, many years now. As McLaren would be result-wise without the cap.

I think F1 is in a golden era currently, many sponsors, more viewers, everything got bigger. Due to the stable regulatons and frozen PU we saw a thrilling second half of the season 2024. 2025 could be very entertaining.

But things can change again and will for sure in 2026 with the new chassis and PU regulations. As a McLaren fan I would enjoy the 2025 season to the fullest.

[Emag]

Henri I don't want to sound disrespectful but Mclaren as a name is as high as Ferrari. Mercedes and Red Bull are nowhere near Mclaren in terms of history and an F1 name. F1 doesn't exist without Ferrari, Mclaren or Williams while nobody will care if Red Bull or Mercedes leave F1. It was always like this and it will always be like this. These 3 teams are F1. As for sponsors Mercedes who was dominant during 2014 to 2021 are nothing 3 years now and actually lost sponsors. Mclaren who was nothing during 2014 to 2021 and empty of sponsors are now on top and trying to find space in the car to put sponsors. Even Ferrari who used to be on top from 1999 to 2007 were insignificant 16 years now both in titles and sponsors (only recently they got HP and never had a good sponsor since Vodafone) and needed Hamilton to be on the spotlight. Things change and evolve and you should not take things for granted.

Sponsors don't care about F1 history. They care about the return for their investment. Most of them do at least.

Mercedes and Ferrari are substantially larger IPs in the automotive industry. Although they have made strides recently, McLaren is absolutely nowhere near the same brand value. Same goes for RedBull. You might say it's just an energy drink racing team, but RedBull is the most popular energy drink in the world and in the top 3 of the most valuable soft drinks (behind coke and pepsi).

An interested sponsor will always choose to invest where they think they will gain most publicity, with certain exceptions of course depending on the type of partnership and intended target market.

After that, the other deciding factor is money. If they can't afford to pay big sums to the big(ger) teams, they will settle for the next best thing. McLaren is doing well to improve their chances with the results coming in these last 2 years. But it will take a while before they become as attractive to high-end sponsors as the rest of the top teams are.

[mwillems]

Henri I don't want to sound disrespectful but Mclaren as a name is as high as Ferrari. Mercedes and Red Bull are nowhere near Mclaren in terms of history and an F1 name. F1 doesn't exist without Ferrari, Mclaren or Williams while nobody will care if Red Bull or Mercedes leave F1. It was always like this and it will always be like this. These 3 teams are F1. As for sponsors Mercedes who was dominant during 2014 to 2021 are nothing 3 years now and actually lost sponsors. Mclaren who was nothing during 2014 to 2021 and empty of sponsors are now on top and trying to find space in the car to put sponsors. Even Ferrari who used to be on top from 1999 to 2007 were insignificant 16 years now both in titles and sponsors (only recently they got HP and never had a good sponsor since Vodafone) and needed Hamilton to be on the spotlight. Things change and evolve and you should not take things for granted.

This has nothing to do with what is being said.

Point is we cannot yet command the same rates as other teams. This is born out in the numbers. Everything else you wrote just seems to want to big up McLaren in the face of cold hard facts. We are the Joint third most attractive team right now to sponsors. That is why Red Bull and Ferraris biggest sponsors are about twice the size of Mclarens.

Sorry to say it but your post is so leftfield and needlessly trying to big up the team, but money talks and your post walks.

[geogate]

cant underestimate the nut behind the wheel. A Mclaren team with say Herta and Bortoleto would be very different proposition to one with Norris and Piastri

[90feet]

Henri I don't want to sound disrespectful but Mclaren as a name is as high as Ferrari. Mercedes and Red Bull are nowhere near Mclaren in terms of history and an F1 name. F1 doesn't exist without Ferrari, Mclaren or Williams while nobody will care if Red Bull or Mercedes leave F1. It was always like this and it will always be like this. These 3 teams are F1. As for sponsors Mercedes who was dominant during 2014 to 2021 are nothing 3 years now and actually lost sponsors. Mclaren who was nothing during 2014 to 2021 and empty of sponsors are now on top and trying to find space in the car to put sponsors. Even Ferrari who used to be on top from 1999 to 2007 were insignificant 16 years now both in titles and sponsors (only recently they got HP and never had a good sponsor since Vodafone) and needed Hamilton to be on the spotlight. Things change and evolve and you should not take things for granted.

I can tell you that my arguments were the same as I was younger, but history doesn't pay your bills, as happened to McLaren in 2020. Williams is anyway irrelevant for many, many years now. As McLaren would be result-wise without the cap.

You guys are really massively underestimating the kind of budget McLaren had in previous years. They weren't at the top, sure, but they weren't far behind those top teams. The lack of sponsors on the car was a bit misleading; a big part of that decline was because Ron was inflexible about the deals he'd accept and would only sign sponsors who paid like it was 2007. Zak has solved that problem in large part by being willing to accept a lot of smaller deals.

Regardless, the idea that McLaren was chronically underfunded and had to be rescued by the budget cap is simply not correct. McLaren's turnaround is a result of putting the right people and the right leadership positions and more efficiently using the resources they had always had at their disposal.

[Emag]

Henri I don't want to sound disrespectful but Mclaren as a name is as high as Ferrari. Mercedes and Red Bull are nowhere near Mclaren in terms of history and an F1 name. F1 doesn't exist without Ferrari, Mclaren or Williams while nobody will care if Red Bull or Mercedes leave F1. It was always like this and it will always be like this. These 3 teams are F1. As for sponsors Mercedes who was dominant during 2014 to 2021 are nothing 3 years now and actually lost sponsors. Mclaren who was nothing during 2014 to 2021 and empty of sponsors are now on top and trying to find space in the car to put sponsors. Even Ferrari who used to be on top from 1999 to 2007 were insignificant 16 years now both in titles and sponsors (only recently they got HP and never had a good sponsor since Vodafone) and needed Hamilton to be on the spotlight. Things change and evolve and you should not take things for granted.

I can tell you that my arguments were the same as I was younger, but history doesn't pay your bills, as happened to McLaren in 2020. Williams is anyway irrelevant for many, many years now. As McLaren would be result-wise without the cap.

You guys are really massively underestimating the kind of budget McLaren had in previous years. They weren't at the top, sure, but they weren't far behind those top teams. The lack of sponsors on the car was a bit misleading; a big part of that decline was because Ron was inflexible about the deals he'd accept and would only sign sponsors who paid like it was 2007. Zak has solved that problem in large part by being willing to accept a lot of smaller deals.

Regardless, the idea that McLaren was chronically underfunded and had to be rescued by the budget cap is simply not correct. McLaren's turnaround is a result of putting the right people and the right leadership positions and more efficiently using the resources they had always had at their disposal.

I think you're the one who is overestimating the budget McLaren was working with. Once Honda departed, McLaren were struggling with severe financial issues. They were on the brink of bankruptcy in 2020

[mwillems]

The year after the Honda departure, FY18, Mclarens income dropped from 196m to 123m. In 19 it was back up to 185m but they still made a loss. From 18, when Honda left to 20, the team made a loss of £150m. For the two years before the budget cap we were propped up by loans from.shzreholders, as well as the sale of historic vehicles.

In comparison, in 2018 Red Bull spent about 300m. It looks like in 18 and 19 Mclaren spent about 200m per year and accrued close to 100m in debt to do so.

This debt, primarily from the 18 season, put Mclaren on a poor financial footing for 20 where we continued to struggle.

That's a huge difference. But during the Honda years RBs budget was closer to 200m and the difference here wasn't money although we accrued debt to sustain spending.

After the Honda years, money was highly significant.

[MTudor]

I never thought I would see an MLP name as a sponsor.

Who is MLP?

[-wkst-]

After the Honda years, money was highly significant.

Exactly, and still would be without the budget cap. So I still don't understand the discussion entirely, as that's exactly what I/others want to say.

[mclaren111]

Rob Marshall interview:

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/324503/w ... laren.html

[Venturiation]

Are there rumors on the performance?