2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[peewon]

So Newey thinks its likely to be a PU driven formula and says that if the main advantage is ICE driven then it would likely last the whole regulation cycle. No wonder Mercedes has been so adamant at not wanting any changes to the regs. Also its kind of a giveaway that its not a simple continuation of the previous regs on the ICE side and he expects evolution.

Someone previously claimed Honda had an advantage on the ICE and was behind on the electrical side. Obviously take this with an extremely big pinch of salt.

The among thing inside the paddock is that like now, Honda is expected to have nearly 10-20hp advantage on the ice for 2026. The electrical battery storage and cooling is where the issue is as Mercedes, Ford, Ferrari are ahead (in the order of performance). Honda is struggling to bring the weight down as well. However it probably for now the only engine not suffering from turbo spikes and lag(Ford and Ferrari are struggling which is why their simulations show horrible spinouts at top speed). Mercedes is still the best option but Honda has the least amount of problems to fix and the msot easiast probelms to fix(this is why they backtracked and rejoined f1 efforts). The ice tech used is very similar to the inline 4 engines used in super gt and the v6 engine used on Indycars.

I hope thats the case but I cannot find a credentialed source to backup this claim. What we know is till May of last year, Honda was testing the ICE with only one cylinder engine and still on a recruitment drive to build a staff which they lost to either RBPT, other Honda projects or retirement. This is information directly from Honda. Paddock people on record have only spoken about Mercedes being the clear front runner which has been discussed before.

[KimiRai]

What we know is till May of last year, Honda was testing the ICE with only one cylinder engine

Honda insider disproved that information here afaik. It is possible Mercedes could be ahead but imo I doubt there will be a repeat of 2014-level advantage on their side. Time will tell of course and I could totally be wrong.

If Honda only has a single cylinder prototype at the current time, then they are very behind the likes of Mercedes and RB who are known to have full PUs in operation since the summer.

but then again, it's not like Honda is a new participant. They will scale quite rapidly. Aston Martin are in luck.

I hope everyone has a Happy Holiday season and Happy New Year!

Do not worry, we are not behind. There are more than one complete ICE prototypes built and running.

[peewon]

What we know is till May of last year, Honda was testing the ICE with only one cylinder engine

Honda insider disproved that information here afaik. It is possible Mercedes could be ahead but imo I doubt there will be a repeat of 2014-level advantage on their side. Time will tell of course and I could totally be wrong.

If Honda only has a single cylinder prototype at the current time, then they are very behind the likes of Mercedes and RB who are known to have full PUs in operation since the summer.

but then again, it's not like Honda is a new participant. They will scale quite rapidly. Aston Martin are in luck.

I hope everyone has a Happy Holiday season and Happy New Year!

Do not worry, we are not behind. There are more than one complete ICE prototypes built and running.

Hmmm. Honestly I dont really know the credibility of these insiders. The Honda information I posted is directly from HRC President Koji Watanabe's interview with Motorsport published 30th April 2024.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... /10605009/

"This work is completely in line with our own objectives. In parallel, we are of course developing the internal combustion engine, but at this stage, it is not yet a V6. It is now a single cylinder.

It could be smoke screen or just not wanting to show your full hand.

[RedNEO]

So Newey thinks its likely to be a PU driven formula and says that if the main advantage is ICE driven then it would likely last the whole regulation cycle. No wonder Mercedes has been so adamant at not wanting any changes to the regs. Also its kind of a giveaway that its not a simple continuation of the previous regs on the ICE side and he expects evolution.

He also mentioned that IF the main advantage is the hybrid system then it may be easier for others to catch up sooner.

So Newey thinks its likely to be a PU driven formula and says that if the main advantage is ICE driven then it would likely last the whole regulation cycle. No wonder Mercedes has been so adamant at not wanting any changes to the regs. Also its kind of a giveaway that its not a simple continuation of the previous regs on the ICE side and he expects evolution.

Someone previously claimed Honda had an advantage on the ICE and was behind on the electrical side. Obviously take this with an extremely big pinch of salt.

The among thing inside the paddock is that like now, Honda is expected to have nearly 10-20hp advantage on the ice for 2026. The electrical battery storage and cooling is where the issue is as Mercedes, Ford, Ferrari are ahead (in the order of performance). Honda is struggling to bring the weight down as well. However it probably for now the only engine not suffering from turbo spikes and lag(Ford and Ferrari are struggling which is why their simulations show horrible spinouts at top speed). Mercedes is still the best option but Honda has the least amount of problems to fix and the msot easiast probelms to fix(this is why they backtracked and rejoined f1 efforts). The ice tech used is very similar to the inline 4 engines used in super gt and the v6 engine used on Indycars.

Before Honda had announced their return to F1 as an engine PU supplier, current president Mr. Mibe said that they will phase out internal combustion engines by 2040. It was the general consensus among the Japanese press that we wouldn't see a next generation ICE from Honda other than the 2.0L block (Acura and larger Honda cars may continue to use variants of the V6s). However, a small mention and presentation slide recently shown at the Tochigi test track during the Honda Prelude press drive surprised some that a new 1.5L engine with approximately 40% more torque and improved fuel efficiency thanks to a new generation high flow port had been in development for the past 2 years and set to be introduced in 2026. The peak horsepower of the ICE improved over previous designs where peak power output would plateau as the engine reached max RPM. This next generation ICE is said to have improved stoichiometric AFR and is apparently silent. This application is not for the Honda 0 series and is the next-generation e:HEV, so whether or not this push is due to Honda's continued F1 involvement remains to be seen.

That would be cool if that’s what Newey is referring to.

[selvam_e2002]

It seems same story repeating from 2014. If the situation is same as 2014 in 2026 then Alonso will quit from F1 all for good.

[lio007]

Contradicts a bit what Wazari mentioned lately: https://www.planetf1.com/news/honda-rac ... power-unit

So take it with a pinch of salt. I trust Wazari more in that case.

[diffuser]

It seems same story repeating from 2014. If the situation is same as 2014 in 2026 then Alonso will quit from F1 all for good.

For it to be a repeat of 2014, Honda would be just starting from scratch to build the WHOLE NEW PU without having any real data for sizing guide lines. Plus it was much more difficult to make changes in 2015 after the initial release of the PU, which compounded Honda's problems. The fact that they're currently running a ICE in F1 that is 98%(it might even be higher 99 - 99.5%) the same as what you're gonna have in 2026 makes that impossible.

[Waz]

A power unit dominated formula is always quite stupid, considering that teams are not required to build their own engines.

The technical regulations should always be chassis favoured with a tight engine regulation that puts them all on par for at least one specific type of output.

[dren]

However, a small mention and presentation slide recently shown at the Tochigi test track during the Honda Prelude press drive surprised some that a new 1.5L engine with approximately 40% more torque and improved fuel efficiency thanks to a new generation high flow port had been in development for the past 2 years and set to be introduced in 2026. The peak horsepower of the ICE improved over previous designs where peak power output would plateau as the engine reached max RPM. This next generation ICE is said to have improved stoichiometric AFR and is apparently silent. This application is not for the Honda 0 series and is the next-generation e:HEV, so whether or not this push is due to Honda's continued F1 involvement remains to be seen.

You have a link for that? I'm not having luck finding any info on the 1.5L. I figured Honda would just stick the same Accord hybrid package into it.

[OnEcRiTiCaL]

A power unit dominated formula is always quite stupid, considering that teams are not required to build their own engines.

The technical regulations should always be chassis favoured with a tight engine regulation that puts them all on par for at least one specific type of output.

You are very wrong! I mean is always was power unit oriented, of course the aero is very important factor. But I remember old times when the Ferrari brought 6 engine in Monza for Schumacher! They used new engine at every free practice and qualification and race. If i remember good the Jordaan, F1 Minaardi teams used 6-7 engine at whole season! It was a joke F1 literally. Mercedes also had amazing engine with excellent reliability and still have ,we can see in McLaren how good it is...But yeah aero and power both very important in f1 and in modern f1 to understand the tyres and make it work also very important! With aero upgrades you can't find seconds, but once you understand the tyres you will find seconds.

[Rikrikrik]

Here we go again Boys and Girls, nothing promissing

https://www.planetf1.com/news/honda-rac ... power-unit

[zoroastar]

Here we go again Boys and Girls, nothing promissing

https://www.planetf1.com/news/honda-rac ... power-unit

that article says nothing haha. it looks like he probably said that its challenging, and they made it sound like honda were conceding defeat already. dont take it as some great piece of investigative journalism.

[zoroastar]

What we know is till May of last year, Honda was testing the ICE with only one cylinder engine

Honda insider disproved that information here afaik. It is possible Mercedes could be ahead but imo I doubt there will be a repeat of 2014-level advantage on their side. Time will tell of course and I could totally be wrong.

I hope everyone has a Happy Holiday season and Happy New Year!

Do not worry, we are not behind. There are more than one complete ICE prototypes built and running.

Hmmm. Honestly I dont really know the credibility of these insiders. The Honda information I posted is directly from HRC President Koji Watanabe's interview with Motorsport published 30th April 2024.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... /10605009/

"This work is completely in line with our own objectives. In parallel, we are of course developing the internal combustion engine, but at this stage, it is not yet a V6. It is now a single cylinder.

It could be smoke screen or just not wanting to show your full hand.

he seemed like he knew what honda was doing in detail back in the mclaren honda days. i remember him sharing a lot of details on their PU upgrades and such. he definitely knew, or knew somebody that knew what was going on inside hondas f1 engine department

[peewon]

he seemed like he knew what honda was doing in detail back in the mclaren honda days. i remember him sharing a lot of details on their PU upgrades and such. he definitely knew, or knew somebody that knew what was going on inside hondas f1 engine department

It does seem so. Honestly, dont know what to make of that. Its entirely possible Honda would downplay expectations given the events of previous regs change.

[diffuser]

he seemed like he knew what honda was doing in detail back in the mclaren honda days. i remember him sharing a lot of details on their PU upgrades and such. he definitely knew, or knew somebody that knew what was going on inside hondas f1 engine department

It does seem so. Honestly, dont know what to make of that. Its entirely possible Honda would downplay expectations given the events of previous regs change.

Chances are 1 PU is gonna be better than the other 4. If you say Merc is gonna be the best cause of some BS rumour you have a 20% chance at being right. If you say Honda isn't gonna be the best, you have 80% chance of being right.