2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[Rikrikrik]

Even Honda doesnt have the best engine next year, i dont believe they will suffer like 2015. I think they will be the similiar level comapring to Mercedes and Ferrari. Dude, they are Japanese, they are tireless samurais and they will make the best package with Valvoline, Aramco and Newey. We need focus in 2025, seat and wait, every team will be challenge about these engines. Aston has excelent stuff to make the best things. We need trust on them. The British media looks like interesting a lot in make "controversal" articles about Aston, Alonso, Newey, 2026,Honda, Verstappen, so, some good stuff from behind the scenes should be coming.

[zoroastar]

The Japanese aren't the best when it comes to diction and you always have the western media reading into the words, especially in a negative way. For Honda, the struggle is part of the process. The word for struggle in Japanese is kurou, and kurositeru translate to struggling but doesn't have the same connotation. It's always a struggle, it's always a challenge. What he means to say is that it's challenging. Challenging to meet power goals and packaging. Developing fuel, reducing weight, finding the right layout, and accommodating and compromising. Hopefully Andy Cowell is helping the Japanese understand the wording of the regulations to know how much they can go into the gray areas. This is their biggest struggle in my opinion and having Andy Cowell onboard is a huge benefit.

yeah there has always been some things lost in translation when itcomes to honda in the western media. and the western media (and western race fans) are always quick to over-dramatize anything for more clicks. the length of that interview is telling. i dont know what setting it was in, but i doubt watanabe would make some major declaration of hondas inability to compete with merc and ferrari in 1 or 2 sentences. he was just saying that its a challenging job. and now everyone is going to lose their minds until every team gets on track in 26 and sees whos really ahead.

[lio007]

The Japanese aren't the best when it comes to diction and you always have the western media reading into the words, especially in a negative way. For Honda, the struggle is part of the process. The word for struggle in Japanese is kurou, and kurositeru translate to struggling but doesn't have the same connotation. It's always a struggle, it's always a challenge. What he means to say is that it's challenging. Challenging to meet power goals and packaging. Developing fuel, reducing weight, finding the right layout, and accommodating and compromising. Hopefully Andy Cowell is helping the Japanese understand the wording of the regulations to know how much they can go into the gray areas. This is their biggest struggle in my opinion and having Andy Cowell onboard is a huge benefit.

I don't think Cowell has time to deep dive into the PU regulations and make recommendations to Honda. Cowell was an engine guy, but isn't any more. And like in the past Honda want to do it the Honda-way, they want to solve problems on their own or within the Honda environment, like they did with the split turbo when the jet-division was consulted.

[diffuser]

Could be wrong but bare in mind the humble approach and talk of the japanese guys compared to guys in the west. He didn't say anything specific, being slower or better than anyone else, just that it isn't easy for them as everything is new, as it is for every other manufacturer.

You can already tell from the words, look at Mercedes totally different in approach. It will be really tough in 2026, when there are these rumors they almost always come true

A bit like zero pod

Without comparison, in public, it's really just bluster and speculation.

Good point.

[diffuser]

You can already tell from the words, look at Mercedes totally different in approach. It will be really tough in 2026, when there are these rumors they almost always come true

A bit like zero pod

Without comparison, in public, it's really just bluster and speculation.

That was a correlation error, but in my opinion we need to ask ourselves why even a team like Alpine decided to use the Mercedes engine.

Cause Alpine are making a correlation error? They're think, just because Merc was the best back in 2014 - 2020 that they'll be the best in 2026.

If you think about it, Alpine have found a way to be fairly competitive with the worst PU. Merc is just a safe bet. Merc have the most customer PU supplied, they'll see more Kilometers per race/FPs, expose problems sooner and reliability will improve faster. They don't have any inside information about Merc vs the competition.

[selvam_e2002]

I expect Honda to be competitive when the time comes.

Agreed.

may be after 2030?

[diffuser]

The Japanese aren't the best when it comes to diction and you always have the western media reading into the words, especially in a negative way. For Honda, the struggle is part of the process. The word for struggle in Japanese is kurou, and kurositeru translate to struggling but doesn't have the same connotation. It's always a struggle, it's always a challenge. What he means to say is that it's challenging. Challenging to meet power goals and packaging. Developing fuel, reducing weight, finding the right layout, and accommodating and compromising. Hopefully Andy Cowell is helping the Japanese understand the wording of the regulations to know how much they can go into the gray areas. This is their biggest struggle in my opinion and having Andy Cowell onboard is a huge benefit.

Arigatou gozaimasu.

[Sherrinford]

A bit like zero pod

Without comparison, in public, it's really just bluster and speculation.

That was a correlation error, but in my opinion we need to ask ourselves why even a team like Alpine decided to use the Mercedes engine.

Cause Alpine are making a correlation error? They're think, just because Merc was the best back in 2014 - 2020 that they'll be the best in 2026.

If you think about it, Alpine have found a way to be fairly competitive with the worst PU. Merc is just a safe bet. Merc have the most customer PU supplied, they'll see more Kilometers per race/FPs, expose problems sooner and reliability will improve faster. They don't have any inside information about Merc vs the competition.

I was referring to the zero pod, it was a correlation error but it has nothing to do with the engine

[Farnborough]

That was a correlation error, but in my opinion we need to ask ourselves why even a team like Alpine decided to use the Mercedes engine.

Cause Alpine are making a correlation error? They're think, just because Merc was the best back in 2014 - 2020 that they'll be the best in 2026.

If you think about it, Alpine have found a way to be fairly competitive with the worst PU. Merc is just a safe bet. Merc have the most customer PU supplied, they'll see more Kilometers per race/FPs, expose problems sooner and reliability will improve faster. They don't have any inside information about Merc vs the competition.

I was referring to the zero pod, it was a correlation error but it has nothing to do with the engine

Correlation my RRRRRR's something they never recovered from. Rumour from within the same organisation MB, with false sidepod at 1st test, stories internal of 1.0X seconds gain from "update" and absolute failure to reconcile the errors, still.

Admittedly, it's a very fine engine of this generation thats used now and within this years AMR. Showing particular potency in McL chassis last year too, along with Aston 23 performance.

There maybe gossip or otherwise "claims" made about future engine performance, but no-one worth their integrity is going to trade intelligence of real figures out in the open air at this point. The real performance and protection of that attribute is worth too much to them.

Alpine use, in future, has absolutely nothing to do with this thread either. Correlation or not.

[Farnborough]

The Honda incoming though ... as noted above, has very different word and meaning attached to public projection.

Original Honda entry that came in this V6 era, was compromised by complacency and assumption. Thats if I took logical meaning from their open discussion about the project (during the time after announcement of withdrawal) with candid admission of a viable approach from them.
It surprised me they didn't achieve success earlier with McL in that period, as they'd ordinarily been able to develop their hardware into competitive form previously.

From some involvement and understanding of Honda engineering throughout long period, I'd have confidence in them ultimately achieving their goals, as they eventually did through involvement in Torro Rosso partnership, then to RB itself. That didn't surprise me, their company philosophy, diligent application and natural curiosity in pure engine design, this allied to typicsl Japanese application in absolute detail etc, both delivering and hold world championships currently.

At this point, I'd believe they are for more cognizant of the true target in comparison to that McL period. They've learned and developed extensively through this period. Both those responsible and new recruits within the next era engines I'd be confident of them being able to match the direct competition.

View of electric recovery and deployment, within the rules, is a far more variable topic for all of them as far as I can see.

[Espresso]

Even Honda doesnt have the best engine next year, i dont believe they will suffer like 2015. I think they will be the similiar level comapring to Mercedes and Ferrari. Dude, they are Japanese, they are tireless samurais and they will make the best package with Valvoline, Aramco and Newey. We need focus in 2025, seat and wait, every team will be challenge about these engines. Aston has excelent stuff to make the best things. We need trust on them. The British media looks like interesting a lot in make "controversal" articles about Aston, Alonso, Newey, 2026,Honda, Verstappen, so, some good stuff from behind the scenes should be coming.

Reminder…It was when the Bulls introduced some external advisors after the MCL Saga that the Engine Development Jumped forward.

[Sherrinford]

The Honda incoming though ... as noted above, has very different word and meaning attached to public projection.

Original Honda entry that came in this V6 era, was compromised by complacency and assumption. Thats if I took logical meaning from their open discussion about the project (during the time after announcement of withdrawal) with candid admission of a viable approach from them.
It surprised me they didn't achieve success earlier with McL in that period, as they'd ordinarily been able to develop their hardware into competitive form previously.

From some involvement and understanding of Honda engineering throughout long period, I'd have confidence in them ultimately achieving their goals, as they eventually did through involvement in Torro Rosso partnership, then to RB itself. That didn't surprise me, their company philosophy, diligent application and natural curiosity in pure engine design, this allied to typicsl Japanese application in absolute detail etc, both delivering and hold world championships currently.

At this point, I'd believe they are for more cognizant of the true target in comparison to that McL period. They've learned and developed extensively through this period. Both those responsible and new recruits within the next era engines I'd be confident of them being able to match the direct competition.

View of electric recovery and deployment, within the rules, is a far more variable topic for all of them as far as I can see.

In my opinion they have never been the best, in 2021 Mercedes had a better engine . Let's then consider the fact that since 2022 the electrical part has been managed by RbPt, so I personally don't remember this supremacy and this domination. For me only Newey and Cowell can try to succeed in reducing the gap for 2026

[ispano6]

The Japanese aren't the best when it comes to diction and you always have the western media reading into the words, especially in a negative way. For Honda, the struggle is part of the process. The word for struggle in Japanese is kurou, and kurositeru translate to struggling but doesn't have the same connotation. It's always a struggle, it's always a challenge. What he means to say is that it's challenging. Challenging to meet power goals and packaging. Developing fuel, reducing weight, finding the right layout, and accommodating and compromising. Hopefully Andy Cowell is helping the Japanese understand the wording of the regulations to know how much they can go into the gray areas. This is their biggest struggle in my opinion and having Andy Cowell onboard is a huge benefit.

I don't think Cowell has time to deep dive into the PU regulations and make recommendations to Honda. Cowell was an engine guy, but isn't any more. And like in the past Honda want to do it the Honda-way, they want to solve problems on their own or within the Honda environment, like they did with the split turbo when the jet-division was consulted.

Honda can still do it their own way, "All Honda" if you will. Even still, there were times during the early years of the Red Bull Honda partnership where the FIA had asked Honda to change things. Why? Because of the interpretation of the rules. Believe me, I know some current Honda engineers at HRC/HPD who are perfectly bilingual, and I know former engineers at Sakura who are not. Andy Cowell, within his capacity, should ensure that everyone is on the right page, that there are no gotchas, and he communicates extremely well. He's also incredibly humble.

https://www.astonmartinf1.com/en-GB/new ... ays-as-ceo

"My first task has been getting to know people. I've spent a lot of time talking to people: speaking to those within the business and those outside the business, such as our partners Aramco and Honda.
"My experience is all in power units, I don't have direct experience of the world of aerodynamics or creating a Formula One car in its entirety, so that's given me plenty of opportunity to ask lots of questions.
...
"We're partnering with Honda, one of the best power unit manufacturers in the world, who are hugely creative and motivated, and then we have Aramco developing advanced fuels for us and Valvoline providing us with best-in-class lubricants. We're fortunate to have these powerhouse organisations as partners, they're at the forefront of their respective fields and bring so much experience and expertise. Our new Technology Campus will be fully operational by 2026 and we've got some brilliant technical minds joining the team. These are just a selection of all the puzzle pieces that we've got to bring together."
...

[ispano6]

Even Honda doesnt have the best engine next year, i dont believe they will suffer like 2015. I think they will be the similiar level comapring to Mercedes and Ferrari. Dude, they are Japanese, they are tireless samurais and they will make the best package with Valvoline, Aramco and Newey. We need focus in 2025, seat and wait, every team will be challenge about these engines. Aston has excelent stuff to make the best things. We need trust on them. The British media looks like interesting a lot in make "controversal" articles about Aston, Alonso, Newey, 2026,Honda, Verstappen, so, some good stuff from behind the scenes should be coming.

Reminder…It was when the Bulls introduced some external advisors after the MCL Saga that the Engine Development Jumped forward.

The external advisors were individuals tapped from various departments of Honda Jet and Honda Motorcycle division.
The jump in development came from MGU-K reliability of the design provided by a Honda jet engineer and the cylinder plating technology that came from a Honda motorcycle division engineer.

In my opinion they have never been the best, in 2021 Mercedes had a better engine . Let's then consider the fact that since 2022 the electrical part has been managed by RbPt, so I personally don't remember this supremacy and this domination. For me only Newey and Cowell can try to succeed in reducing the gap for 2026

The hybrid portion was NEVER developed by RBPT, it was Honda employees who moved over to RBPT and Honda's carbon nanotube technology of the battery was a result of a decades long development starting with a joint research with Purdue University.

[diffuser]

Even Honda doesnt have the best engine next year, i dont believe they will suffer like 2015. I think they will be the similiar level comapring to Mercedes and Ferrari. Dude, they are Japanese, they are tireless samurais and they will make the best package with Valvoline, Aramco and Newey. We need focus in 2025, seat and wait, every team will be challenge about these engines. Aston has excelent stuff to make the best things. We need trust on them. The British media looks like interesting a lot in make "controversal" articles about Aston, Alonso, Newey, 2026,Honda, Verstappen, so, some good stuff from behind the scenes should be coming.

Reminder…It was when the Bulls introduced some external advisors after the MCL Saga that the Engine Development Jumped forward.

The external advisors were individuals tapped from various departments of Honda Jet and Honda Motorcycle division.
The jump in development came from MGU-K reliability of the design provided by a Honda jet engineer and the cylinder plating technology that came from a Honda motorcycle division engineer.

In my opinion they have never been the best, in 2021 Mercedes had a better engine . Let's then consider the fact that since 2022 the electrical part has been managed by RbPt, so I personally don't remember this supremacy and this domination. For me only Newey and Cowell can try to succeed in reducing the gap for 2026

The hybrid portion was NEVER developed by RBPT, it was Honda employees who moved over to RBPT and Honda's carbon nanotube technology of the battery was a result of a decades long development starting with a joint research with Purdue University.

That was for Renault with the advisors. Honda was finally allowed to completely redesign their PU the last year they were at McLaren. It was the straw that broke McLaren's back, with a complete PU redesign, reliability issues was unavoidable.

The first ToroRosso year they mainly fixed most of the problem but they had the split turtbo axle problem that you mentioned. They brought in the aircraft division to figure out how to prevent it from breaking.