2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
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Joined: 22 Oct 2018, 10:52

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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if we go back to MCL Honda page 2014, we can see same conversation similar to what we have here. I am don't believe in Honda till I see them delivered on track in 2026.

All my worries is that, lots of sources gptoday, etc reporting that Honda in trouble. at least we know they are in trouble. I heard the single cylender test in 2014 as well. So I am afraid repeat of 2014 with Alonso and same comment may be incoming in 2026 or 2027.

with one team you cannot improve. Honda need least two teams. So I am not confident on them. Alonso career could be end with Honda without 3WDC which is a pain as a Alonso fan.

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
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Joined: 22 Oct 2018, 10:52

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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I think 2025 is the right time for Alonso to win if AMR deliver good or decent car.

GhostF1
GhostF1
110
Joined: 30 Aug 2016, 04:11

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 06:00
if we go back to MCL Honda page 2014, we can see same conversation similar to what we have here. I am don't believe in Honda till I see them delivered on track in 2026.

All my worries is that, lots of sources gptoday, etc reporting that Honda in trouble. at least we know they are in trouble. I heard the single cylender test in 2014 as well. So I am afraid repeat of 2014 with Alonso and same comment may be incoming in 2026 or 2027.

with one team you cannot improve. Honda need least two teams. So I am not confident on them. Alonso career could be end with Honda without 3WDC which is a pain as a Alonso fan.
A lot of what went wrong back in 2014 won't happen again. It was mostly lack of infrastructure, experience, facilities, and familiarity with the formula. All of these are not issues now and they have extensive knowledge on what works best with the current ICE regs, which 2026 will largely follow in regards to principles. There'll be some experimenting for sure, how to make these engines work best without a motor to help a sizeable turbo along, its behaviour coming on and off boost and electric motor integration. But the horrendous teething issues back in 2015, I doubt we'll see anything like that from them. Even Audi and RBPT.. they might begin behind but nothing awful, most of the engineers are so well versed with the current formula and interchanging between teams that no one is really starting from absolute zero like Honda did back in 2014.

If Aston can get some confidence in their correlation issues and follow the right path for the car. They've got the backing and facilities to make massive strides this year.

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ispano6
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Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 03:44
ispano6 wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 01:59
Espresso wrote:
29 Jan 2025, 22:38

Reminder…It was when the Bulls introduced some external advisors after the MCL Saga that the Engine Development Jumped forward.
The external advisors were individuals tapped from various departments of Honda Jet and Honda Motorcycle division.
The jump in development came from MGU-K reliability of the design provided by a Honda jet engineer and the cylinder plating technology that came from a Honda motorcycle division engineer.
Sherrinford wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 00:53

In my opinion they have never been the best, in 2021 Mercedes had a better engine . Let's then consider the fact that since 2022 the electrical part has been managed by RbPt, so I personally don't remember this supremacy and this domination. For me only Newey and Cowell can try to succeed in reducing the gap for 2026
The hybrid portion was NEVER developed by RBPT, it was Honda employees who moved over to RBPT and Honda's carbon nanotube technology of the battery was a result of a decades long development starting with a joint research with Purdue University.
That was for Renault with the advisors. Honda was finally allowed to completely redesign their PU the last year they were at McLaren. It was the straw that broke McLaren's back, with a complete PU redesign, reliability issues was unavoidable.

The first ToroRosso year they mainly fixed most of the problem but they had the split turtbo axle problem that you mentioned. They brought in the aircraft division to figure out how to prevent it from breaking.
Credit should go to where it is due. Mr. Asaki, Kakuda and Kumamoto manufacturing division. The jump in performance did not come from external non-honda advisors. It was thanks to these specific people and teams that improved reliability including milled blocks instead of casted and 3D printed turbos.

Chanman141
Chanman141
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Joined: 12 Jul 2016, 12:54

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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I’m cautiously optimistic the 2025 car will be better than expected. From what I understand from the forum the car had issues that couldn’t really be fixed with updates in the 2024 season and they’ve gone through a lot of growing pains last season so they should have a better idea what works or doesn’t. I think the external hires look like a great addition and have really brought focus

Espresso
Espresso
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 01:59
The external advisors were individuals tapped from various departments of Honda Jet and Honda Motorcycle division.
The jump in development came from MGU-K reliability of the design provided by a Honda jet engineer and the cylinder plating technology that came from a Honda motorcycle division engineer.
Well to clarify. If Honda and folks don´t remember the external advisors (read non-Honda employees) who guided them in the right direction...they will make the same mistake again. #
P.S. It was the external advisor that advised to bring other Honda divisions into the team to complement the technical staff....
Last edited by Espresso on 30 Jan 2025, 12:36, edited 1 time in total.

-wkst-
-wkst-
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Joined: 29 Jan 2016, 21:55
Location: Austria

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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For me there are 3 key elements for 2025:

1) Producing a floor with good and stable downforce (points)

2) New rear end from Mercedes for reduced tyre wear

3) Going to the limit with flexi wings for better balance


Newey hinted it already in the 2nd part AMuS interview. These cars reached the end of the development circle for more DF from the floor, without other influences. AMR was clearly behind in that area, I think they can find time (compared to the opponents - who are way closer to the limit).

They are still dependent on Mercedes, hope is that Mercedes finally understand what to do, as they concentrate (according to media reports) on this part of the car. Reduced tyre wear is simply pure lap time in the race...

Flexi wings are another topic. AMR reintroduced flexi wings in 2024, but McLaren or Mercedes were clearly superior in this field. Listening to paddock guys this is mainly for a better balance and therefore good for the feeling of the driver.


In my opinion: some low hanging fruits for AMR compared to others. They will catch up, the question is how much?

And I really like that many guys write AMR already off for 2025, they can only suprise...

Sherrinford
Sherrinford
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Joined: 01 Jun 2024, 00:11

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 01:59
Espresso wrote:
29 Jan 2025, 22:38
Rikrikrik wrote:
29 Jan 2025, 18:04
Even Honda doesnt have the best engine next year, i dont believe they will suffer like 2015. I think they will be the similiar level comapring to Mercedes and Ferrari. Dude, they are Japanese, they are tireless samurais and they will make the best package with Valvoline, Aramco and Newey. We need focus in 2025, seat and wait, every team will be challenge about these engines. Aston has excelent stuff to make the best things. We need trust on them. The British media looks like interesting a lot in make "controversal" articles about Aston, Alonso, Newey, 2026,Honda, Verstappen, so, some good stuff from behind the scenes should be coming.
Reminder…It was when the Bulls introduced some external advisors after the MCL Saga that the Engine Development Jumped forward.
The external advisors were individuals tapped from various departments of Honda Jet and Honda Motorcycle division.
The jump in development came from MGU-K reliability of the design provided by a Honda jet engineer and the cylinder plating technology that came from a Honda motorcycle division engineer.
Sherrinford wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 00:53

In my opinion they have never been the best, in 2021 Mercedes had a better engine . Let's then consider the fact that since 2022 the electrical part has been managed by RbPt, so I personally don't remember this supremacy and this domination. For me only Newey and Cowell can try to succeed in reducing the gap for 2026
The hybrid portion was NEVER developed by RBPT, it was Honda employees who moved over to RBPT and Honda's carbon nanotube technology of the battery was a result of a decades long development starting with a joint research with Purdue University.
I remembered that between 2021 and 2022 Redbull had ex-Mercedes engineers and as you say ex-Honda who developed the electric part. Am I wrong? The fact is that I am no longer at Honda if it were as you say it was

KimiRai
KimiRai
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Joined: 10 Aug 2022, 20:08

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Newey said recently catching up with the electric side of the engine should be relatively easy in the next regs. The real issues is if you get the ICE wrong. Watanabe mentioned the weight of the battery and the electric motor fwiw.

Bill
Bill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2018, 10:28

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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engines are a 100 plus old technology ,i cant think of anytime in f1 where they have been a big disparity between engine ones they adopt the same tech.2026 regs are too prescriptive for anyone to come up with any novel tech.

Bill
Bill
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Joined: 28 Apr 2018, 10:28

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Sherrinford wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 16:14
ispano6 wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 01:59
Espresso wrote:
29 Jan 2025, 22:38

Reminder…It was when the Bulls introduced some external advisors after the MCL Saga that the Engine Development Jumped forward.
The external advisors were individuals tapped from various departments of Honda Jet and Honda Motorcycle division.
The jump in development came from MGU-K reliability of the design provided by a Honda jet engineer and the cylinder plating technology that came from a Honda motorcycle division engineer.
Sherrinford wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 00:53

In my opinion they have never been the best, in 2021 Mercedes had a better engine . Let's then consider the fact that since 2022 the electrical part has been managed by RbPt, so I personally don't remember this supremacy and this domination. For me only Newey and Cowell can try to succeed in reducing the gap for 2026
The hybrid portion was NEVER developed by RBPT, it was Honda employees who moved over to RBPT and Honda's carbon nanotube technology of the battery was a result of a decades long development starting with a joint research with Purdue University.
I remembered that between 2021 and 2022 Redbull had ex-Mercedes engineers and as you say ex-Honda who developed the electric part. Am I wrong? The fact is that I am no longer at Honda if it were as you say it was
you guys post nonsence go to Honda site and read for yourself
https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... om=related

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Otromundo
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Joined: 26 Feb 2023, 00:29
Location: Spain

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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I continue to be surprised by the lack of development and mistakes from last season. I wasn't expecting it, especially the erratic way it all unfolded.

When the season started, the first goal for me was to ride comfortably alongside the other Mercedes engines except the Williams. I still think the same. Although now I think Williams has gone up a level and can be another danger alongside MB and McL.

If in the first 3 races the car travels alongside its brand mates "comfortably"... without looking like a truck on steroids in the corners... and not being a snail on the straights... I will feel much calmer and confident.

I understand the enormous difficulties involved in creating a very competitive F1 team, which requires not only a lot of money but also putting together a high-quality human team in adequate facilities. But I didn't like the second half of last season and I'm still not over it.

Regarding the future with Honda, I prefer not to comment. There are much more important and urgent things ahead.
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

Espresso
Espresso
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Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Bill wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 18:01

you guys post nonsence go to Honda site and read for yourself
https://global.honda/en/tech/motorsport ... om=related
Cough..‘I l m o r‘… cough
Story must have vibrated so much that some names dropped out…
It’s just to mention if they don’t change their approach it will be the same pitfall again.
The Team that have gone through the change largely moved to rbpt.

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dren
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Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Impressive gains over the years:
Image
Honda!

Sherrinford
Sherrinford
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Joined: 01 Jun 2024, 00:11

Re: 2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Otromundo wrote:
30 Jan 2025, 20:56
I continue to be surprised by the lack of development and mistakes from last season. I wasn't expecting it, especially the erratic way it all unfolded.

When the season started, the first goal for me was to ride comfortably alongside the other Mercedes engines except the Williams. I still think the same. Although now I think Williams has gone up a level and can be another danger alongside MB and McL.

If in the first 3 races the car travels alongside its brand mates "comfortably"... without looking like a truck on steroids in the corners... and not being a snail on the straights... I will feel much calmer and confident.

I understand the enormous difficulties involved in creating a very competitive F1 team, which requires not only a lot of money but also putting together a high-quality human team in adequate facilities. But I didn't like the second half of last season and I'm still not over it.

Regarding the future with Honda, I prefer not to comment. There are much more important and urgent things ahead.
In my opinion, there is no difference between fighting for the rear and 5th/6th place. Would Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and Redbull fans be happy to fight for the top 5? No.In 2023 I remember well how McLaren, despite starting from behind, had the presumption of believing they could fight with those in front and they succeeded. This is the step to take but I think they understood it, the mentality is everything. In Alpine they took the car out of the showroom and put the winning one full of titles, ask yourself a few questions. These things they count more than anything.
And that's why I have little faith in Honda's words, when I already read "everything is difficult", etc. I would prefer instead to read sentences like: "everything is under control and we are doing well". Etc.It's a clear alarm bell. I'm not an expert in the technique even if I understood something in my ignorance (I still think the front suspension was Aston Martin's problem this year), but I can read from the words spoken, body movements and facial expressions, when a situation is good or not. As an Alonso fan I followed Alpine for example and I remember well who said they were making good progress, that they needed this five-year plan to win and from there I understood that they were going nowhere. Long-term plans are useless, no you don't know what can happen tomorrow, you wake up, you lose engineers, the opponents make more progress than you, they change the rules and they destroy everything you've done, so you have to act quickly and immediately. That said, this new structure inspires me a lot and I have a lot of confidence, I think the approach will be similar to the one I described : winning is the most important thing right away.
Last edited by Sherrinford on 30 Jan 2025, 22:20, edited 2 times in total.