Red Bull RB21 Speculation Thread

[lio007]

Generally speaking RBR also had some flexing in '24 when you look at onboards.
The question is how much of RB21's concept is based on aero elasticity.

Maybe (or hopefully) it's just one aspect and not THE aspect. Suspension might be another area where time and money has been spent.

[Chuckjr]

The TD change mid season is another obscenity from the FIA. It's obviously to pre-empt any situation of a dominant team, and synthetically try to augment the season. Fail. I honestly would not put it past them to start doing garbage like this every year. Eventually it will get to driver musical chairs and finally to an F1 triathlon: 1/3rd season racing F1 boats, 1/3 season racing F1 bikes, 1/3 season racing F1 cars.
Sorry. Just pissed and tired of FIA bs.

[carisi2k]

Generally speaking RBR also had some flexing in '24 when you look at onboards.
The question is how much of RB21's concept is based on aero elasticity.

Maybe (or hopefully) it's just one aspect and not THE aspect. Suspension might be another area where time and money has been spent.

actually there is a comparison video on YT that shows this not to be the case. Just look at how rigid the rb20 is especially compared to the Mac and Merc.

Mind you the main point of contention for this rule is the split about 10-15cm in from the nose which shouldn't be there if not for silly "interpreting" of loose FIA rules.

[lio007]

Generally speaking RBR also had some flexing in '24 when you look at onboards.
The question is how much of RB21's concept is based on aero elasticity.

Maybe (or hopefully) it's just one aspect and not THE aspect. Suspension might be another area where time and money has been spent.

actually there is a comparison video on YT that shows this not to be the case. Just look at how rigid the rb20 is especially compared to the Mac and Merc.

Mind you the main point of contention for this rule is the split about 10-15cm in from the nose which shouldn't be there if not for silly "interpreting" of loose FIA rules.

Hm...this video is from early September, I really thought there were flex on RB20's FW later in the season.
I'll have a look on F1TV.

[marcel171281]

Main difference is not even on the flaps bending backwards. On the McLaren the main planes (the non adjustable part of the wing) bents down as well. And quite a lot actually. The RB doens't have any form of plex in that directions, completely rigid.

[Henk_v]

I think it is highly likely they got (a) design(s) submitted that could not be banned but were regarded as unwanted or disrupting and felt immediate action was required.

Some other thing I podered a bit upon, is the development resource balance within teams. If 2025 is fully focussed on aeroelasticity, what are the other guys doing? Maybe there was a risk of the aero department arriving late to the 2026 party and the team bosses asked the FIA for a clampdown on aero intensity of 2025.

[BorisTheBlade]

Taking the angle of the Photo into account, it could be the typical hole between the Airbox and the left pillar.

[Seanspeed]

Generally speaking RBR also had some flexing in '24 when you look at onboards.
The question is how much of RB21's concept is based on aero elasticity.

Maybe (or hopefully) it's just one aspect and not THE aspect. Suspension might be another area where time and money has been spent.

actually there is a comparison video on YT that shows this not to be the case. Just look at how rigid the rb20 is especially compared to the Mac and Merc.

Mind you the main point of contention for this rule is the split about 10-15cm in from the nose which shouldn't be there if not for silly "interpreting" of loose FIA rules.

Hm...this video is from early September, I really thought there were flex on RB20's FW later in the season.
I'll have a look on F1TV.

There was some pretty revealing comparison shots during COTA(late Oct) showing pretty much the same thing. Mclaren and Mercedes were so very clearly achieving more flex than everybody else.

[carisi2k]

I suspect that the crackdown on flexi wings from Barcelona is because Red Bull with the RB21 was going to take wing flexing as far as they could and it was going to guarantee Max a fifth title. I believe that the RB21 will be much lighter then the RB20 which was a porker and at least 20kg overweight. The RB21 will be coming in under or at the minimum weight and they will also have the planned front nose and wing they wanted last year but couldn't because it failed the crash tests.

[OO7]

I suspect that the crackdown on flexi wings from Barcelona is because Red Bull with the RB21 was going to take wing flexing as far as they could and it was going to guarantee Max a fifth title. I believe that the RB21 will be much lighter then the RB20 which was a porker and at least 20kg overweight. The RB21 will be coming in under or at the minimum weight and they will also have the planned front nose and wing they wanted last year but couldn't because it failed the crash tests.

Are you sure. Isn't 20kg worth around a second per lap?

[carisi2k]

I suspect that the crackdown on flexi wings from Barcelona is because Red Bull with the RB21 was going to take wing flexing as far as they could and it was going to guarantee Max a fifth title. I believe that the RB21 will be much lighter then the RB20 which was a porker and at least 20kg overweight. The RB21 will be coming in under or at the minimum weight and they will also have the planned front nose and wing they wanted last year but couldn't because it failed the crash tests.

Are you sure. Isn't 20kg worth around a second per lap?

yep and yes it is and think about how little the RB20 advanced over the RB19 in lap time year over year vs Mclaren, Ferrari and Mercedes.

[lio007]

I suspect that the crackdown on flexi wings from Barcelona is because Red Bull with the RB21 was going to take wing flexing as far as they could and it was going to guarantee Max a fifth title. I believe that the RB21 will be much lighter then the RB20 which was a porker and at least 20kg overweight. The RB21 will be coming in under or at the minimum weight and they will also have the planned front nose and wing they wanted last year but couldn't because it failed the crash tests.

Are you sure. Isn't 20kg worth around a second per lap?

yep and yes it is and think about how little the RB20 advanced over the RB19 in lap time year over year vs Mclaren, Ferrari and Mercedes.

Do you really think a car from a team like Red Bull is that much overweight, when even smaller teams achieve the weight limit? Just wondering.

[marcel171281]

The RB20 was never overweight. The RB18 was and it was already solved with the RB19. Red Bull and Verstappen were pretty open about it at the time.

[Seanspeed]

I suspect that the crackdown on flexi wings from Barcelona is because Red Bull with the RB21 was going to take wing flexing as far as they could

I think a lot of people are going to need to recalibrate the 'extremeness' of Red Bull's aero design chops in this post-Newey world.

Regardless, without a crackdown, EVERY team was going to push the flexi wings as much as they possibly could. I really dont think there would have been any specific fear about Red Bull.

You could argue that Red Bull was asking about a certain design limit or something, but if so, they would have known a likely reaction would be to tighten restrictions to prevent this, meaning RB would have considered that a positive outcome for them.

[Seanspeed]

I suspect that the crackdown on flexi wings from Barcelona is because Red Bull with the RB21 was going to take wing flexing as far as they could and it was going to guarantee Max a fifth title. I believe that the RB21 will be much lighter then the RB20 which was a porker and at least 20kg overweight. The RB21 will be coming in under or at the minimum weight and they will also have the planned front nose and wing they wanted last year but couldn't because it failed the crash tests.

Are you sure. Isn't 20kg worth around a second per lap?

yep and yes it is and think about how little the RB20 advanced over the RB19 in lap time year over year vs Mclaren, Ferrari and Mercedes.

What I saw was that Red Bull lost their direction when Newey left. I dont know how people can consider that just some coincidence.

Also Newey himself warned that the RB20's base design had fundamental development limitations and was ignored.

I dont know where you heard this '20kg overweight' claim, but it's absolute nonsense.