McLaren MCL39

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
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Location: Cape Town

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Vanja #66 wrote:
14 Feb 2025, 19:47
FDD wrote:
14 Feb 2025, 16:02

If I remember well that kind of geometry is anti anti-dive.
Different aero management/interaction that is for sure, AFAIK and based on many analyses made by You and some other guys on www.newsf1.it
As far as I know, over 100% anti dive leads to jacking, ie hopping under braking. It's more than bad

However, this would be a very different geometry, as you can see on this illustration, not really what McLaren is doing I think

https://livetodai.com/uploads/default/o ... 1e6d0.jpeg
These diagrams show that by lowering the rear arm of the upper wishbone they are REDUCING the ant-dive. Exactly the opposite of what the commentators are writing.

Andi76
Andi76
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Re: McLaren MCL39

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tok-tokkie wrote:
16 Feb 2025, 08:51
Vanja #66 wrote:
14 Feb 2025, 19:47
FDD wrote:
14 Feb 2025, 16:02

If I remember well that kind of geometry is anti anti-dive.
Different aero management/interaction that is for sure, AFAIK and based on many analyses made by You and some other guys on www.newsf1.it
As far as I know, over 100% anti dive leads to jacking, ie hopping under braking. It's more than bad

However, this would be a very different geometry, as you can see on this illustration, not really what McLaren is doing I think

https://livetodai.com/uploads/default/o ... 1e6d0.jpeg
These diagrams show that by lowering the rear arm of the upper wishbone they are REDUCING the ant-dive. Exactly the opposite of what the commentators are writing.
This is exactly what I and a few others have been trying to make clear to people for a long time. Just as the anti-dive value is ultimately influenced by other things... it's just complete nonsense what is being spread in the media that a low rear leg of the upper wishbone inevitably increases means "more" anti-dive. I also can't understand how people like Gary Anderson, who should actually know something like this, cheer such things on.

But anyway - what McLaren is actually doing here in my opinion, are two things - aerodynamic optimization and better driver feel/confidence. At the limit, especially in duels and under braking, Lando often didn't look good against Verstappen and Max usually came out on top. One reason for this could be a high anti-dive value, which impaired the feeling and feedback to the driver. One solution would be a lower anti-dive value with simultaneous optimization of the aerodynamics.

f1rules
f1rules
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Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Remembering back when the anti dive was re introduced some years ago (again)
There was articles explaining exactly what you mention here. Its a fine line. If you overdo it, the drivers will loose feel for the car

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BassVirolla
12
Joined: 20 Jul 2018, 23:55

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Andi76 wrote:
16 Feb 2025, 09:06
tok-tokkie wrote:
16 Feb 2025, 08:51
Vanja #66 wrote:
14 Feb 2025, 19:47


As far as I know, over 100% anti dive leads to jacking, ie hopping under braking. It's more than bad

However, this would be a very different geometry, as you can see on this illustration, not really what McLaren is doing I think

https://livetodai.com/uploads/default/o ... 1e6d0.jpeg
These diagrams show that by lowering the rear arm of the upper wishbone they are REDUCING the ant-dive. Exactly the opposite of what the commentators are writing.
This is exactly what I and a few others have been trying to make clear to people for a long time. Just as the anti-dive value is ultimately influenced by other things... it's just complete nonsense what is being spread in the media that a low rear leg of the upper wishbone inevitably increases means "more" anti-dive. I also can't understand how people like Gary Anderson, who should actually know something like this, cheer such things on.

But anyway - what McLaren is actually doing here in my opinion, are two things - aerodynamic optimization and better driver feel/confidence. At the limit, especially in duels and under braking, Lando often didn't look good against Verstappen and Max usually came out on top. One reason for this could be a high anti-dive value, which impaired the feeling and feedback to the driver. One solution would be a lower anti-dive value with simultaneous optimization of the aerodynamics.
Some posters in this forum called me off for saying this same thing. :roll:

I'm happy to know that I'm not such a fool.

Even more, I think that in a front limited era, could be of some help increase the weight transfer under braking, and get the front wing near the ground in order to increase front downforce in corner entry.

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Image

Image

Image

Image
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#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
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Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: McLaren MCL39

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As always, thank you for the detailed analysis. That hump is really interesting indeed, hadn’t noticed it before.

Could it be an underfloor redesign?

Looking forward to (potential) high quality images taken from the diffuser in testing to maybe deduce some changes.
Developer of F1InsightsHub

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Emag wrote:
16 Feb 2025, 19:54
Could it be an underfloor redesign?
Almost certainly. It could be more pronounced now because the surrounding geometry sits lower, but this area where the vortex is developing has to be kept a bit higher...
"If anyone was to ask for my opinion, which, I note, they're not..." - The Fellowship

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie


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Vanja #66
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Re: McLaren MCL39

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trinidefender wrote:
17 Feb 2025, 19:23
Which other teams run double kick diffusers?
I think McLaren was the last of Top 5 to adopt this kind of geometry, back in Mexico last year

Image
"If anyone was to ask for my opinion, which, I note, they're not..." - The Fellowship

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

michl420
michl420
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Joined: 18 Apr 2010, 17:08
Location: Austria

Re: McLaren MCL39

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I think there is a cover over the floor by the inlet and the edge wing (or a show floor).

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Vanja #66 wrote:
17 Feb 2025, 19:45
trinidefender wrote:
17 Feb 2025, 19:23
Which other teams run double kick diffusers?
I think McLaren was the last of Top 5 to adopt this kind of geometry, back in Mexico last year

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gg9ejvBWYAA ... name=large
As far as I can see the double kick was there in the old design as well just that the initial kick was made larger.

Would you agree?

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: McLaren MCL39

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trinidefender wrote:
17 Feb 2025, 23:45
As far as I can see the double kick was there in the old design as well just that the initial kick was made larger.

Would you agree?
On the outside we only see the local portion of the floor and Red Bull has previously used this area for a local pocket on the floor. Based on the actual photos of MCL38 post-miami underside, it was never a 2-kick solution, but the ramp has a certain upward curvature - it's not completely flat

Image
"If anyone was to ask for my opinion, which, I note, they're not..." - The Fellowship

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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NutritionFact
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Joined: 12 Feb 2015, 12:30

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Looks Like The 1st Gen Ferrari in live Presentation

And flat in the pics on social Media

https://www.directupload.eu/file/d/8834 ... 3i_jpg.htm

Edit, dont Know about mcl60 , but which one is the New ?
Last edited by NutritionFact on 19 Feb 2025, 00:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Marc.W
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Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 14:08
Location: Belfast, N.I

Re: McLaren MCL39

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Isn't that the MCL60?

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Re: McLaren MCL39

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Deleted
Last edited by SmallSoldier on 19 Feb 2025, 04:27, edited 1 time in total.