Flexiwings 2025

[Chuckjr]

The thing to keep an eye on during the tests, is if teams run flexi wings and wings that should pass an FIA deflection test. It'll be interesting to see which teams when all in on Flexi wings and which teams hedged their bets.

Do the cars have to be legal during the test days? Does the FIA check them, or are teams allowed to run whatever they want? Certainly the chassis will have to pass impact tests, but is there any enforcement of things such as wing flex?

This was argued last year. The cars do not have to be legal.

[ispano6]

It would seem to me then that the next avenue would be to attempt asymmetric aeroelasticity- if it's not already being incorporated.

I'd say that's indeed already around .. for longer than one imagines ..

I was thinking that trick Mercedes front suspension that appeared to lower one side of the arms a few years back (most notably at Monaco) was one such mechanism for asymmetric "balance" but I don't necessarily consider that aero-elasticity. I was thinking more on the vein of creating a suction effect or fluttering effect of the floor or wing over curbs or dependent on the aero surface's proximity to the ground. There is also the element of heating the aero-surface using either brake heat or engine cooling vents to influence the boundary layer (Alpine has an interesting design this year) but it would be difficult if not illegal to control which side of the chassis the heat exchange would be activated, unless it is a by-product of, say, the steering angle. The effect need not be drastic, just small enough to favor one side over the other and benign enough to be predictable. Perhaps angle of attack is sufficient with the shapes of the end plates being influential enough.

[organic]

Pierre Waché

Speaking on the final day of pre-season testing in Bahrain, Red Bull technical director Pierre Wache told The Race that he had no doubts some squads again appeared to be exploiting the mini-DRS idea.

"It is still going on," he said. "I think Ferrari and McLaren are doing the mini-DRS stuff still."

Asked if he anticipated the matter becoming a talking point over the early stages of the season, Wache said: "It will be. It is quite visible."

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-f ... i-drs-row/

[Matt2725]

If any team is found to be at it, surely it should be a sporting penalty this time around?

[JordanMugen]

"It is still going on," he said. "I think Ferrari and McLaren are doing the mini-DRS stuff still."

Anti-McLaren, anti-Ferrari bias from Wache?

Is Red Bull in sufficient political favour for the FIA to decide to act on these McLaren and Ferrari flexible rear wings (if Wache's allegations are true)?

Presumably these McLaren and Ferrari rear wings have been designed to pass the letter of 2025 load tests, so it is up to the FIA if they want to introduce another technical directive.

[Luscion]

Given that during the three-day test in Bahrain, shots of the rear wings in 24 hours of broadcast were rare, Wache's suspicions could open a Pandora's box. I traced the imaginary line of the rear wing of the Mercedes W16 at the braking point of turn 1, that is, in one of the slowest points of the Sakhir track. Net of the approximation of my measurement, it appears evident that at high speed the entire rear wing group tilts at high speed. At least this is my personal impression.

[chrisc90]

That’s quite a bit of flex!

Have a feeling it’s going to be a very active season with teams fighting it out with things like this. Maybe some protests too!

[Rikhart]

Given that during the three-day test in Bahrain, shots of the rear wings in 24 hours of broadcast were rare, Wache's suspicions could open a Pandora's box. I traced the imaginary line of the rear wing of the Mercedes W16 at the braking point of turn 1, that is, in one of the slowest points of the Sakhir track. Net of the approximation of my measurement, it appears evident that at high speed the entire rear wing group tilts at high speed. At least this is my personal impression.

This is quite a lot more flex than the red bull wing that got banned (because, ironically, of mercedes)! No way this is legal, if they're allowed to race this it's just ridiculous.

[michl420]

The DRS is a movable aero and it makes this things much more complex and dynamic. I would say rules and tests should me clear and simple for the future because otherwise we will have a 30 page regulation just for this specific point.

And from 26 on this sort of grey area will give much more room for lap time. I fear for someone here this will result in big discussions.

[michl420]

If any team is found to be at it, surely it should be a sporting penalty this time around?

Every wing of every car is tested before the weekend. The result is that every wing you see on a race weekend is per definition legal. (Of course, only as long as the team does not mount a false wing).
I can not understand this disscussion about the legality. A wing that bend by 300 kmh 20 cm backward but is tested before and declared legal is legal. For me that is very clear.

[bluechris]

Fp1 will reveal many things and then what? Like MCLaren they will get a bonus of a ton of races to fix their cheating?

[kptaylor]

If any team is found to be at it, surely it should be a sporting penalty this time around?

Every wing of every car is tested before the weekend. The result is that every wing you see on a race weekend is per definition legal. (Of course, only as long as the team does not mount a false wing).
I can not understand this disscussion about the legality. A wing that bend by 300 kmh 20 cm backward but is tested before and declared legal is legal. For me that is very clear.

Agreed, to a point. If the intent is to breach the sporting regs, then the FIA have to make that determination and have a discussion with the team to correct it, or issue a TD and mandate their additional clarifications of the regs.

[101FlyingDutchman]

Fp1 will reveal many things and then what? Like MCLaren they will get a bonus of a ton of races to fix their cheating?

I take issue with these sort of accusations. If the FIA allows it and passes all the tests then it’s legal. It’s what F1 is all about. Pushing the boundaries. Everyone in the off season has done their own take on the rules and work accordingly. F1 should be about invention and pushing the limits. Otherwise it’s just another stock formula

[Matt2725]

Fp1 will reveal many things and then what? Like MCLaren they will get a bonus of a ton of races to fix their cheating?

I take issue with these sort of accusations. If the FIA allows it and passes all the tests then it’s legal. It’s what F1 is all about. Pushing the boundaries. Everyone in the off season has done their own take on the rules and work accordingly. F1 should be about invention and pushing the limits. Otherwise it’s just another stock formula

The accusation appears to be the DRS slot gap opening under load the same as Baku last season, which of course was specifically said to be a big no-no.
If they and another team (in this case Ferrari) are found to be flouting that again, then I don't see why there should be any leeway. If they race with it, they should find themselves with a DSQ. It's not like a new season should be a fresh chance to actively break the rules.

[bluechris]

Fp1 will reveal many things and then what? Like MCLaren they will get a bonus of a ton of races to fix their cheating?

I take issue with these sort of accusations. If the FIA allows it and passes all the tests then it’s legal. It’s what F1 is all about. Pushing the boundaries. Everyone in the off season has done their own take on the rules and work accordingly. F1 should be about invention and pushing the limits. Otherwise it’s just another stock formula

McLaren passed all the tests last year and yet we all saw what is happening and yet how many races passed and points gained from MCLaren? Now in the MB video we see a huge deform and lowering down of the whole rear wing design and we don't know who else has that since no other video emerged yet. Is that nominal movement according to the spirit of the rules? If not, how much time FIA will give this bonus to the team/teams that do this till they ban it?
This is what i am talking about. FIA must be swift and clear, nothing can deform/move if we reach fp1 of the 1st race or else we will have another fiasco with politics and team/teams to be benefited of this.