McLaren MCL39

[Emag]

I think too much time discussing Scarb's backgorund and not his ideas.
He's been on this forum for years also before he became F1 celebrity. Even if he is not 100% right, he makes interesting discussions. And when he's not right, it's usually because there was not enough info and an educated guess had to be made.
As for his diagram with the tie rods passing to the front of the wheel upright, i would say it's different.
The tie rod is in the centre but it crosses back over the rear lower control arm and the outer link is actually to the rear of the upright.
This is my guess anyway.
In other words if we use Scarb's drawing, mcl39 jas the link connected in the same place on the hub as in 2024 but the rack end is in the middle as his diagram shows for 2025.

Having the tie rods reach out diagonally as Scarb's has it would need a funky steering rack to provide even motion on both left and right sides while the driver turns.

Other than the steering, even though MCL38 was the champion car, it's hard to pinpoint what features made it so good everywhere.
We may still be scratching our heads as to why MCL39 is a step ahead of the others. And not it's not flexi wings.

This is exactly what I was thinking about the MCL38 too and I made a post in the MCL39 speculation thread highlighting the fact that the MCL38 was really quite "boring" to look at for a car that was fastest for a good chunk of the season in 2024 and ended up winning the constructors too :

To be honest for how competitive they were, the MCL38 was a rather boring car to look at compared to the other top teams. I guess it was the tightest around the sidepods? A side-view comparison with Ferrari shows this the best.

https://i.imgur.com/FJprcfO.png

Other than that I suppose the suspension setup was also quite aggressive, both in the front and back. The front in particular had this peculiar assembly which hasn't been seen on competitors in recent times.

Craig explained it in a post earlier this season :



Genuinely can't think of other interesting things to mention about the car. The flexing stuff is hardly new and I don't consider it technically impressive. Looking forward to the "brave risk" ideas they mentioned for the 2025 car. Similar things were said about the MCL38 when it launched as well, naming multiple innovations in the car. When the car launched though, there was hardly anything screaming innovation on the surface so who knows what Andrea meant by that. There is a lot we can't see. Would be disappointing if they roll out with a MCL39 that looks largely the same with MCL38 in the flesh, but also not very surprising considering this is going to be the last year for these regulations.

Still, whatever the car has on the inside doesn't really change my point. The MCL38 last year was quite boring to look at.

The MCL39 looks like a more "developed" and aggressive version of the MCL38, so in a way, I still think there's not that many intriguing or "outlandish" things about McLaren's car and it's weird in a way that when you look at it, you get kind of surprised it performs as well as it did in testing (and grant it, we don't know how it will be in Australia so perhaps this assessment is premature). However I digress, there's more things in the MCL39 that draw your attention than there were with the MCL38.

But still, I think other top teams have certain visible striking details that give their respective cars a flair. It's almost comical that McLaren has relatively bland-looking body aero, yet it outperforms them. In a way, it's making all those external details in rival's cars seem worthless.

Stuff like this makes me wonder how much all of those little details we spend so much time spotting and discussing here, actually contribute towards performance. It's pretty much impossible to know what makes a car competitive or not just by looking at it. It sure is interesting and engaging to talk about everything we find though.

[MrGapes]

I think too much time discussing Scarb's backgorund and not his ideas.
He's been on this forum for years also before he became F1 celebrity. Even if he is not 100% right, he makes interesting discussions. And when he's not right, it's usually because there was not enough info and an educated guess had to be made.
As for his diagram with the tie rods passing to the front of the wheel upright, i would say it's different.
The tie rod is in the centre but it crosses back over the rear lower control arm and the outer link is actually to the rear of the upright.
This is my guess anyway.
In other words if we use Scarb's drawing, mcl39 jas the link connected in the same place on the hub as in 2024 but the rack end is in the middle as his diagram shows for 2025.

Having the tie rods reach out diagonally as Scarb's has it would need a funky steering rack to provide even motion on both left and right sides while the driver turns.

Other than the steering, even though MCL38 was the champion car, it's hard to pinpoint what features made it so good everywhere.
We may still be scratching our heads as to why MCL39 is a step ahead of the others. And not it's not flexi wings.

This is exactly what I was thinking about the MCL38 too and I made a post in the MCL39 speculation thread highlighting the fact that the MCL38 was really quite "boring" to look at for a car that was fastest for a good chunk of the season in 2024 and ended up winning the constructors too :

To be honest for how competitive they were, the MCL38 was a rather boring car to look at compared to the other top teams. I guess it was the tightest around the sidepods? A side-view comparison with Ferrari shows this the best.

https://i.imgur.com/FJprcfO.png

Other than that I suppose the suspension setup was also quite aggressive, both in the front and back. The front in particular had this peculiar assembly which hasn't been seen on competitors in recent times.

Craig explained it in a post earlier this season :



Genuinely can't think of other interesting things to mention about the car. The flexing stuff is hardly new and I don't consider it technically impressive. Looking forward to the "brave risk" ideas they mentioned for the 2025 car. Similar things were said about the MCL38 when it launched as well, naming multiple innovations in the car. When the car launched though, there was hardly anything screaming innovation on the surface so who knows what Andrea meant by that. There is a lot we can't see. Would be disappointing if they roll out with a MCL39 that looks largely the same with MCL38 in the flesh, but also not very surprising considering this is going to be the last year for these regulations.

Still, whatever the car has on the inside doesn't really change my point. The MCL38 last year was quite boring to look at.

The MCL39 looks like a more "developed" and aggressive version of the MCL38, so in a way, I still think there's not that many intriguing or "outlandish" things about McLaren's car and it's weird in a way that when you look at it, you get kind of surprised it performs as well as it did in testing (and grant it, we don't know how it will be in Australia so perhaps this assessment is premature). However I digress, there's more things in the MCL39 that draw your attention than there were with the MCL38.

But still, I think other top teams have certain visible striking details that give their respective cars a flair. It's almost comical that McLaren has relatively bland-looking body aero, yet it outperforms them. In a way, it's making all those external details in rival's cars seem worthless.

Stuff like this makes me wonder how much all of those little details we spend so much time spotting and discussing here, actually contribute towards performance. It's pretty much impossible to know what makes a car competitive or not just by looking at it. It sure is interesting and engaging to talk about everything we find though.

I think this is a pretty interesting point I think about every preseason, when they utilized the Toyota wind tunnel, I always thought it was primarily a logistical and financial challenge to attain more visually appealing solutions. Whenever I see the new Ferrari, they introduce some pretty distinctive and intriguing external aerodynamic details, even Aston has shown some eye-catching body aerodynamics through this era of car. (plainly speaking on visual details)

I do wonder how the conversations really go in the technical office, while we spend all this time talking about the vacuum body cover or inlet shapes, they’ve probably invested significant time and energy into micro-adjustments to the floor edges, and floor surfaces, and overall upstream/downstream interactions.

But then again, I do think about 2018 when they aimed for maximum effort on all aero details, it seems since that time, their focus has consistently been on creating a robust, and complete package

[Andi76]

In addition to accusations of cheating by Red Bull towards Ferrari and McLaren, McLaren's front suspension remains the topic of the week in the media. Without having actually studied the pictures due to time constraints, here are two (probably one because i think second one is an old one that was already published) new drawings from Giuliana that look interesting:

[venkyhere]

I think too much time discussing Scarb's backgorund and not his ideas.
He's been on this forum for years also before he became F1 celebrity. Even if he is not 100% right, he makes interesting discussions. And when he's not right, it's usually because there was not enough info and an educated guess had to be made.
As for his diagram with the tie rods passing to the front of the wheel upright, i would say it's different.
The tie rod is in the centre but it crosses back over the rear lower control arm and the outer link is actually to the rear of the upright.
This is my guess anyway.
In other words if we use Scarb's drawing, mcl39 jas the link connected in the same place on the hub as in 2024 but the rack end is in the middle as his diagram shows for 2025.

Having the tie rods reach out diagonally as Scarb's has it would need a funky steering rack to provide even motion on both left and right sides while the driver turns.

Other than the steering, even though MCL38 was the champion car, it's hard to pinpoint what features made it so good everywhere.
We may still be scratching our heads as to why MCL39 is a step ahead of the others. And not it's not flexi wings.

This is exactly what I was thinking about the MCL38 too and I made a post in the MCL39 speculation thread highlighting the fact that the MCL38 was really quite "boring" to look at for a car that was fastest for a good chunk of the season in 2024 and ended up winning the constructors too :

To be honest for how competitive they were, the MCL38 was a rather boring car to look at compared to the other top teams. I guess it was the tightest around the sidepods? A side-view comparison with Ferrari shows this the best.

https://i.imgur.com/FJprcfO.png

Other than that I suppose the suspension setup was also quite aggressive, both in the front and back. The front in particular had this peculiar assembly which hasn't been seen on competitors in recent times.

Craig explained it in a post earlier this season :



Genuinely can't think of other interesting things to mention about the car. The flexing stuff is hardly new and I don't consider it technically impressive. Looking forward to the "brave risk" ideas they mentioned for the 2025 car. Similar things were said about the MCL38 when it launched as well, naming multiple innovations in the car. When the car launched though, there was hardly anything screaming innovation on the surface so who knows what Andrea meant by that. There is a lot we can't see. Would be disappointing if they roll out with a MCL39 that looks largely the same with MCL38 in the flesh, but also not very surprising considering this is going to be the last year for these regulations.

Still, whatever the car has on the inside doesn't really change my point. The MCL38 last year was quite boring to look at.

The MCL39 looks like a more "developed" and aggressive version of the MCL38, so in a way, I still think there's not that many intriguing or "outlandish" things about McLaren's car and it's weird in a way that when you look at it, you get kind of surprised it performs as well as it did in testing (and grant it, we don't know how it will be in Australia so perhaps this assessment is premature). However I digress, there's more things in the MCL39 that draw your attention than there were with the MCL38.

But still, I think other top teams have certain visible striking details that give their respective cars a flair. It's almost comical that McLaren has relatively bland-looking body aero, yet it outperforms them. In a way, it's making all those external details in rival's cars seem worthless.

Stuff like this makes me wonder how much all of those little details we spend so much time spotting and discussing here, actually contribute towards performance. It's pretty much impossible to know what makes a car competitive or not just by looking at it. It sure is interesting and engaging to talk about everything we find though.

Something interesting that emerges out of this :
Conventional car steering is ackerman geometry - the inner wheel turns more than the outer wheel
F1 car steering is anti-ackerman geometry (typically, conventionally) - the outer wheel turns more than the inner wheel.

This newest steering track rod being 'behind' the centerline of the two front wheels, is ackerman-like ; however, the need to ensure outer wheel turn more than the inner wheel is still present (F1). My guess is that there is another set of 'linkages' in addition to a 'rack and pinion' shown by Scarbs in the diagram in his 2024 post. And that additional linkage would be with anti-ackerman geometry.

[michl420]

by venkyhere
"This newest steering track rod being 'behind' the centerline of the two front wheels, is ackerman-like ; however, the need to ensure outer wheel turn more than the inner wheel is still present (F1). My guess is that there is another set of 'linkages' in addition to a 'rack and pinion' shown by Scarbs in the diagram in his 2024 post. And that additional linkage would be with anti-ackerman geometry."

The "geometry" is the same as the ferrari or most of the others (The steering track rod is mouted outboard in front of the front wheel centerline). It doesnt matter if the steering cylinder is 20 cm more foreward or rearwards. The angel of the track rod is more sharper and this result in bigger forces, but they do it last year too and it worked.

[SilviuAgo]

Related to this MCL39 vs MCL38 on suspension part and other aero improvements:

[michl420]

They run this new endplate on day 2 and 3. I think the main plane and maybe the flap-tips are also new. It could be that this main plane can only be run with this strange endplate because of the rules for the rear wing radius. But I am not so good with this regulation.

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/i ... 83083.jpeg

[_cerber1]

https://imageshack.com/i/pm8zuutHj

Couldn't find a great picture, but the side intake duct is sculpted into the monocoque quite a bit. I reckon most teams have their radiators partially buried inside the chassis line, but maybe McLaren more than most.

[BigBeansBoy]

[Emag]

https://imageshack.com/i/pm8zuutHj

Couldn't find a great picture, but the side intake duct is sculpted into the monocoque quite a bit. I reckon most teams have their radiators partially buried inside the chassis line, but maybe McLaren more than most.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GlN9y68WgAA ... ame=medium

Isn't that way too close to the survival cell to have any sort of meaningful space to work with?

[Macklaren]

They run this new endplate on day 2 and 3. I think the main plane and maybe the flap-tips are also new. It could be that this main plane can only be run with this strange endplate because of the rules for the rear wing radius. But I am not so good with this regulation.

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/i ... 83083.jpeg

Have we discussed the "dented" cooling vent engine cover introduced on Day 2 of testing? perhaps the rear wing endplate shape is related to this? haven't seen that type of engine cover on any other car.

[Vappy]

https://imageshack.com/i/pm8zuutHj

Couldn't find a great picture, but the side intake duct is sculpted into the monocoque quite a bit. I reckon most teams have their radiators partially buried inside the chassis line, but maybe McLaren more than most.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GlN9y68WgAA ... ame=medium

Isn't that way too close to the survival cell to have any sort of meaningful space to work with?

It'd be interesting to find out how much depth there is to that indent. Could it be seen as enabling a slightly narrower inlet horizontally that is directly proportionate to the depth of the indent?

[Brahmal]

Have we discussed the "dented" cooling vent engine cover introduced on Day 2 of testing? perhaps the rear wing endplate shape is related to this? haven't seen that type of engine cover on any other car.

I think that's just the lower-flow spec of that part. Pretty sure Ferrari had a somewhat similar solution last year at a couple of the colder races.

I'm almost certain that the design of these vents serve the sidepod radiators for each side exclusively, and are segregated from the rest of the in-body airflow that exits around the exhaust. If so, they would want to maintain the same internal ductwork, so the same width of exit, no matter the level of cooling.

[Slitch-nl]

The rear brake duct has an interesting curvature. The tip bends inward.

[ringo]

Those cooling holes upstream, or dented in holes as they are being called here, is just a cooling outlet area trick.
The car needs X units of cooling outlet area.
When you have these holes upstream the outlet requirements at the last hole by the exhaust pipe is smaller.
This smaller hole allows the car to have a slimmer engine cover and more aero efficiency.
This is seen with Ferrari and any other car with these mid body outlets. Beam wing efficiency is at a premium with this regulation.
That pictue with the rear of mcl38 and 39 illustrates perfectly how much smaller an outlet there is at the muffler with the rest of the cooling outlets located upstream.