2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Paa]

If a men like Ron Dennis & Alonso can kiss & make up after all that happened at McLaren, when they find they need each other, I’m sure a little thing like leaving the RB family wouldn’t get in the way

Yeah, but Sainz is not an Alonso. I rate Sainz high, but still if you want a driver like him, there are at least 5-6 options, maybe more. You can go with any of those and get similar results so you don't have to find a way to make peace with him. However, if you want an Alonso, you need Alonso. There are no alternatives so you either make peace with him, or you won't have it.
That's the difference between the good and the great.

To get back to somewhat ontopic. This is exactly the reason why RedBull kept Max against Sainz. One is unique, the other is replaceable. If they decided to side ways with Sainz back then, I see no reason why to go back to him now.

[Henri]

https://x.com/notracingpoint/status/1896616683659472981 redbull admit McLaren and Ferrari are quicker

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It says: "This post doesn't exist."

I
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/the- ... -troubles/ .. waches quote is at the end in the article

[Henri]

https://x.com/notracingpoint/status/1896616683659472981 redbull admit McLaren and Ferrari are quicker

Can't see the tweet.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/the- ... -troubles/ in here

[Bill]

how does Lawson compare to max ,from the limited running we had he look a step behind .kimi on the merc straight away looks on pace ,so why is the redbull always difficult to extract performance for second driver

It doesn't help that RB has always had the mentality to not want to upset Max with a good second driver. Objectively, no one believed TSU nor SAI had any chance at that seat because they would have put up a good challenge to Max, which would have upset Max. Simple as that. Other teams don't have that mentality and hence, they always have better second drivers. Just the reality. It's the RB culture at the moment.

Why did they get rid of Perez then? I mean, why even hire Perez in the first place when Perez was decently well rated at the time? Perez only has a lower reputation now because Verstappen wiped the floor with him.

And it's a genuine laugh to think Tsunoda could have put up a challenge to Max.

Sainz might have been closer, but let's be real - Verstappen was already beating him convincingly when they were teammates and Verstappen was ultra green in terms of experience racing cars.

Truth is, nobody outside of one of the very few best in the sport are capable of actually rivaling Verstappen and even then I'd still put money on Verstappen over a season any day.

the difference between a quick and worst driver in f1 is 0.3 tenth according to engineers ,when redbull car was driverable perez was capable of matching or beating Max so its not funny that Tsunoda can beat Max on odd races he has proven to be quick driver and can handle difficult cars.he put his car p3 in brazil quali beating rainmaster max.so my question has not been answered why is it difficult for second driver to extract pace on that Rb

[Vettel165]

Looks ok on the track.

[Wouter]

Looks ok on the track.

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This was from the first testing day on Wednesday. After that they changed a lot on the car to become quicker.
The balance got worse on Friday (with the new floor?).

[organic]

The 2025 car is an entirely new concept, we are told. Let's see what they bring at round 1 as I should imagine different bodywork will best work with a new concept

[the EDGE]

The 2025 car is an entirely new concept, we are told. Let's see what they bring at round 1 as I should imagine different bodywork will best work with a new concept

I don’t think there will be substantial changes, just usual in-season updates, they’ve already altered lots, even if it’s just subtle. We’ve also seen a new front wing already.

I think they’re happy with the external aero philosophy, it’s not out of kilter with the rest of the field. I also think their attention was really on the chassis & also trying to work through why their correlation is off. You wouldn’t want to start redesigning this year & working on next year until you’d got a better understanding

I do wonder if they’ll change to a McLaren style side pod inlet like Ferrari have though. There must be a reason McLaren stuck with this & Ferrari copied

[Alexf1]

So the friday floor was no good and was removed in the end.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/the- ... -troubles/

Getting last years troubles back at the very first floor update (even before the season has started) is worrying as you would expect them to want to use this one at the first race. It shows they're still easily lost in development direction.

[Seanspeed]

the difference between a quick and worst driver in f1 is 0.3 tenth according to engineers ,when redbull car was driverable perez was capable of matching or beating Max so its not funny that Tsunoda can beat Max on odd races he has proven to be quick driver and can handle difficult cars.he put his car p3 in brazil quali beating rainmaster max.so my question has not been answered why is it difficult for second driver to extract pace on that Rb

First you admit that Perez was capable of being competitive against Max. But the whole argument was supposed to be that Red Bull *dont* want somebody who is competitive against him.

So why did they hire and keep Perez when he was considered capable and competitive? And if they wanted some worthless scrub as a teammate, why did they get rid of Perez when he was no longer competitive?

Doesn't make any sense.

[zeroday]

the difference between a quick and worst driver in f1 is 0.3 tenth according to engineers ,when redbull car was driverable perez was capable of matching or beating Max so its not funny that Tsunoda can beat Max on odd races he has proven to be quick driver and can handle difficult cars.he put his car p3 in brazil quali beating rainmaster max.so my question has not been answered why is it difficult for second driver to extract pace on that Rb

First you admit that Perez was capable of being competitive against Max. But the whole argument was supposed to be that Red Bull *dont* want somebody who is competitive against him.

So why did they hire and keep Perez when he was considered capable and competitive? And if they wanted some worthless scrub as a teammate, why did they get rid of Perez when he was no longer competitive?

Doesn't make any sense.

Sorry to jump in, but i think you miss the reasons:

1. Help with bringing home the constructors championship.
2. Never make Max unhappy ie. don't beat him consistently.

Notice the direct instructions to Lawson: paraphrasing - "NEVER challenge Max. Just score points".

Max has always had one of the weakest 2nd driver lineup on the grid for his entire career. He's never been challenged that much. He now expects that environment if he is to stay happy. We saw it several times last year. When Max gets challenged on track by other drivers he starts buckling and getting on the radio complaining about some phantom issue. Other drivers and principals said the same thing. Now can u imagine if that was happening with a strong second driver at RB? OMG. Nursery school all over again.

Objectively, we all agree that RBR will never allow Hamilton, Alonso, Leclerc, Sainz, Russell, or in this case, a Tsunoda to be the other driver with Max. It ain't gonna happen. Just facts. Note that i did not include Norris. Norris is still weak-minded and gets afraid by his own shadow despite his talent. He might be better this year, finally. The #1 reason is because the ones i mentioned WILL make max VERY unhappy because lets face it, they WILL beat Max many times -- both will be robbing points off each other. They relish the challenge.

Perez beating Max on occasion will happen from time to time, only when the car is not biased in favor of Max, which it has been as each season's upgrades come in, but the key thing was the hope Perez would help them bring stability for their Constructor hopes. In equal, stable machinery where the upgrades aren't directly biased to help Max only, then yes, Perez could definitely compete against Max -- we usually see it at the beginning of a season -- BUT that is not how RBR operates. Never has. Their driving styles are very different. As the upgrades come in, they know Perez will get weaker and they dont care because its all about keeping Max happy -- as long as Perez can bring in the points for the Constructors. RBR finally admits that they should have listened to Perez, that the car was becoming unstable. He can compete against Max but he is no Alpha driver like the ones i mentioned. The ones i mentioned would soon make Max question why he is in F1. And as such, is why RB would never allow that to happen. Never. So when Sainz was in talks with RBR, it was very obvious he had no shot. None! It wasnt because of some long-dead feud with Sainz Sr. and Jos..that's just naive and stupid to think that. Tsunoda, same issue.

Lawson is a question mark for RBR. They believe he can bring in the points for the Constructors, but they are hoping because he is a rookie and with a stern warning not to challenge Max, that he will obey like the other weak 2nd drivers they've had. I'm sure Lawson will initially obey, but once his confidence grows i wonder if his ambition will look to challenge and beat Max. And then the nightmare scenario for RB: Max becoming upset due to it.

I recall Hamilton in his rookie season. His performance is regarded almost unanimously as the greatest rookie season ever. He was even poised to win the Drivers Championship with relative ease despite Fernando Alonso, the current reining Champion, as his partner. Insanely strong lineup. Although Hamilton was considered an prodigy, McLaren was not expecting he'd be even more gifted than they thought -- an even bigger Alpha than Alonso. It broke Alonso mentally and he's been bitter ever since. Hence, RBR is traumatized by a similar situation happening with Max. So, protect Max at all costs is their motto -- nurse and nurture their baby.

And that strategy has been working very well for them for years!

[Slitch-nl]

I disagree on the dont-beat-max contracts. I think Max is much faster then any driver, and when those drivers try to match Max they get lost and spiral downward. It is not a matter of not allowed to beat Max, more a case of: we've seen this in the past and it wont work. Just focus on learning and improving, not on beating him.
Before red bull had goal: be within 0.3 of Max and your golden. Im starting to think the worse the car gets, the bigger this defficit becomes.

[Matt2725]

I disagree on the dont-beat-max contracts. I think Max is much faster then any driver, and when those drivers try to match Max they get lost and spiral downward. It is not a matter of not allowed to beat Max, more a case of: we've seen this in the past and it wont work. Just focus on learning and improving, not on beating him.
Before red bull had goal: be within 0.3 of Max and your golden. Im starting to think the worse the car gets, the bigger this defficit becomes.

Well we'll never know, because they've never put a top tier calibre driver in the other car whilst Max has been sat in the other car from the start of the season.

[Sieper]

This exact same discussion has been had on this very thread 13 times now.

It always starts with a long post informing exactly why Max is bad and after some fore and back ends with my driver is bestest.

Please refrain from finishing round 13 and do not start round 14.

[Alexf1]

I disagree on the dont-beat-max contracts. I think Max is much faster then any driver, and when those drivers try to match Max they get lost and spiral downward. It is not a matter of not allowed to beat Max, more a case of: we've seen this in the past and it wont work. Just focus on learning and improving, not on beating him.
Before red bull had goal: be within 0.3 of Max and your golden. Im starting to think the worse the car gets, the bigger this defficit becomes.

Well we'll never know, because they've never put a top tier calibre driver in the other car whilst Max has been sat in the other car from the start of the season.

Sainz vs Max was close, so was Ricciardo vs Max. After that Red Bull explored the pointy front end like Benetton did with Schumacher. When the other driver can't cope with that, and can't get the car as competitive with any other setup I think it's clear it's got nothing to do with Max. In F1 a driver is supposed to be able to drive any car to the limit he's given:

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/vers ... greatness/