2025 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Paa]

I don't think MCL have that much advantage in pure pace, they do not break away from the field lap 1 with 0.7 a lap. It comes late in the stint where others simply cannot hold onto their tyres. China should provide a clearer picture of their advantage, especially because I think it will be one of their best tracks with the long sweeping slow/med corners.

RB need another 0.3 in qualy pace, so that Verstappen can be in contention for pole every race. For the race they simply have to find a way to reduce tyre wear, maybe now that they have a look at MCLs wheel hub, they can hopefully understand their thermal management.

RB were probably waiting for preseason testing to confirm their correlation so they could green light further upgrades and confirm they're development path, if the updates are coming by race 3-5 it probably means they are confident in where they are going. Hopefully Helmut is right and they can be on pace with MCL soon.

I mostly agree, I also don't think that McLaren's advantage is 0.7s/lap.
I just wrote that Red Bull needs to find 0.5s, because I assumed that the papayas won't stand still either.

[Vettel165]

We need to find substantially more pace, but I am not totally without optimism. The TD is coming and maybe the advantage won't be unassailable by then

I kind of agree, but McLaren had like 0.7s advantage on the first stint. I don't think TD itself will be enough to recover that (assuming it will affect McLaren more). I would be surprised to see more than 1-2 tenths relative change due to TD.
Marko promised a substantial upgrade at race 3-5, but that needs to be in the range of 0.5s to have a fair fight.

No they didnt, at least not on the dry tyre. It happened on the inter tyre. Max had setup more for medium-high speed corners and more top speed. Mclaren had more drag and downforce in low speed corners. Red Bull had problems in s3 with sliding and we destroyed the tyres in that part of the race. Also mostly Red Bull from 2022 is on average at least 0,3s slower in Melbourne then on nearly every other real circuit. It doesnt look that bad. Have a little faith. Max brought home a fantastic p2, I was very happy with this sunday. We have 23 races remaining, the title isnt won in the first race. Lets see what China and Japan bring, which are traditionally very good track for us.

[Paa]

No they didnt, at least not on the dry tyre. It happened on the inter tyre. Max had setup more for medium-high speed corners and more top speed. Mclaren had more drag and downforce in low speed corners. Red Bull had problems in s3 with sliding and we destroyed the tyres in that part of the race. Also mostly Red Bull from 2022 is on average at least 0,3s slower in Melbourne then on nearly every other real circuit. It doesnt look that bad. Have a little faith. Max brought home a fantastic p2, I was very happy with this sunday. We have 23 races remaining, the title isnt won in the first race. Lets see what China and Japan bring, which are traditionally very good track for us.

Don't get me wrong, I took the race as positive and I'm generally upbeat. I think the season is not lost and there are things to build on.
On the other hand, we also need to be realistic and accept that on a clean race this would have been an easy 1-2 for McLaren. You can't win a 24 race season with outliers so Red Bull need to bring more pace and sooner the better.

[Vettel165]

No they didnt, at least not on the dry tyre. It happened on the inter tyre. Max had setup more for medium-high speed corners and more top speed. Mclaren had more drag and downforce in low speed corners. Red Bull had problems in s3 with sliding and we destroyed the tyres in that part of the race. Also mostly Red Bull from 2022 is on average at least 0,3s slower in Melbourne then on nearly every other real circuit. It doesnt look that bad. Have a little faith. Max brought home a fantastic p2, I was very happy with this sunday. We have 23 races remaining, the title isnt won in the first race. Lets see what China and Japan bring, which are traditionally very good track for us.

Don't get me wrong, I took the race as positive and I'm generally upbeat. I think the season is not lost and there are things to build on.
On the other hand, we also need to be realistic and accept that on a clean race this would have been an easy 1-2 for McLaren. You can't win a 24 race season with outliers so Red Bull need to bring more pace and sooner the better.

Good point 100% agree. We need a car that is within 0,2s on race pace and also has good tyre wear and then Max can do his thing. A miracle is not possible with a car 0,5s slower then Mclaren. We need good updates to help with more rear downforce and traction in the slow-speed areas of the track.

[venkyhere]

The biggest weapon that RBR has in it's arsenal, is Max. The moment they lose him, the team will sink like a stone in a pond. I have been watching F1 for years, and I have not seen a single driver who is 'on the limit' straightaway from the pits, whether it's practice session or Q1 or race (he is the guy posting the best time out of everyone's 'first push lap'). He is squeezing the hell out of the theoretical limit of the car, all the time. This has lulled the team into thinking 'X is the performance bar of the car' when it's supposed to be 0.95*X, like it's for all other teams. This is the reason the 2nd driver comes under pressure, Ricciardo couldn't handle it, neither could the others that followed him.

[Chuckjr]

The biggest weapon that RBR has in it's arsenal, is Max. The moment they lose him, the team will sink like a stone in a pond. I have been watching F1 for years, and I have not seen a single driver who is 'on the limit' straightaway from the pits, whether it's practice session or Q1 or race (he is the guy posting the best time out of everyone's 'first push lap'). He is squeezing the hell out of the theoretical limit of the car, all the time. This has lulled the team into thinking 'X is the performance bar of the car' when it's supposed to be 0.95*X, like it's for all other teams. This is the reason the 2nd driver comes under pressure, Ricciardo couldn't handle it, neither could the others that followed him.

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

[CHT]

The biggest weapon that RBR has in it's arsenal, is Max. The moment they lose him, the team will sink like a stone in a pond. I have been watching F1 for years, and I have not seen a single driver who is 'on the limit' straightaway from the pits, whether it's practice session or Q1 or race (he is the guy posting the best time out of everyone's 'first push lap'). He is squeezing the hell out of the theoretical limit of the car, all the time. This has lulled the team into thinking 'X is the performance bar of the car' when it's supposed to be 0.95*X, like it's for all other teams. This is the reason the 2nd driver comes under pressure, Ricciardo couldn't handle it, neither could the others that followed him.

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

The best thing for Max is to stick with RBR for 2026 because there is no bonus for making guesses or prediction for 2026 pecking order. If he decides to switch by end of the year, he may be stuck with the wrong team for some years before he can switch team.

Merc Ferrari RBR and now Mclaren are all in the ballpark, although some think AM may be a strong contender in 2026 due to AN. Realistically, I think only Ferrari and Merc can afford him.

[Chuckjr]

The biggest weapon that RBR has in it's arsenal, is Max. The moment they lose him, the team will sink like a stone in a pond. I have been watching F1 for years, and I have not seen a single driver who is 'on the limit' straightaway from the pits, whether it's practice session or Q1 or race (he is the guy posting the best time out of everyone's 'first push lap'). He is squeezing the hell out of the theoretical limit of the car, all the time. This has lulled the team into thinking 'X is the performance bar of the car' when it's supposed to be 0.95*X, like it's for all other teams. This is the reason the 2nd driver comes under pressure, Ricciardo couldn't handle it, neither could the others that followed him.

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

The best thing for Max is to stick with RBR for 2026 because there is no bonus for making guesses or prediction for 2026 pecking order. If he decides to switch by end of the year, he may be stuck with the wrong team for some years before he can switch team.

Merc Ferrari RBR and now Mclaren are all in the ballpark, although some think AM may be a strong contender in 2026 due to AN. Realistically, I think only Ferrari and Merc can afford him.

I agree Aston will be a contender if Newey can build a great one.
I don't have a lot of confidence in what Horner is doing. It seems madness to me.
I wish the best for Max. He deserves to be in a fast car. He is an amazing talent.

[FittingMechanics]

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

Max will know HP figures that RBPT is claiming and "suitors" will show him the same for Mercedes and Honda. His decision will point toward what engine will have more power.

[CHT]

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

Max will know HP figures that RBPT is claiming and "suitors" will show him the same for Mercedes and Honda. His decision will point toward what engine will have more power.

I think delivering HP number for engine is easy part. There will be other concerns such fuel efficiency, reliability, energy recovery, the overall integration between chassis aero, engine and driver.

I doubt there will be any drivers' movement for top teams in 2026.

Ferrari - Charles and Lewis (Unless LH retires)
Mclaren - Lando and Oscar
Merc - George and Kimi
RBR - Max and Lawson(?) or maybe Yuki for 2026?

[kurtj]

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

Max will know HP figures that RBPT is claiming and "suitors" will show him the same for Mercedes and Honda. His decision will point toward what engine will have more power.

Would FIA let 2014 repeat, where one manufacturer get massive advantage in power output or will they have some ways to contain that and ensure equality? If FIA has that kind of intention and plans to ensure that, then it shouldn't really matter, who would outperform in the power race. It would then boil down to which chassis is better.

[euv2]

The biggest weapon that RBR has in it's arsenal, is Max. The moment they lose him, the team will sink like a stone in a pond. I have been watching F1 for years, and I have not seen a single driver who is 'on the limit' straightaway from the pits, whether it's practice session or Q1 or race (he is the guy posting the best time out of everyone's 'first push lap'). He is squeezing the hell out of the theoretical limit of the car, all the time. This has lulled the team into thinking 'X is the performance bar of the car' when it's supposed to be 0.95*X, like it's for all other teams. This is the reason the 2nd driver comes under pressure, Ricciardo couldn't handle it, neither could the others that followed him.

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

This is such a tired narrative, big names will continue to switch teams. There is literally nothing RB can do to keep these people, if they are being offered a promotion/higher pay, especially not in this cost cap era where almost every team is running in the green. Only 3 personnel that are exempt from the cost cap. The same thing will happen to MCL if they have sustained success, there is no escaping it.

Also let's not pretend MCL haven't benefited massively from the increased ATR due to their poor placement in the earlier seasons.

For 498% ATR (Red Bull's total):

Wind tunnel runs: 1,599
CFD items: 9,995

For 590% ATR (McLaren's total):

Wind tunnel runs: 1,888
CFD items: 11,800

MCL have had an 18% more wind tunnel and CFD items than RB this reg set, it all adds up, they have simply tested more items and crossed off more stuff that doesn't work than RB. On a long enough time scale even Alpine will out develop RB, never mind an equally competent team like MCL.

You say RB has lost a lot of staff while ignoring that the same has happened to Merc (their HPP department alone lost 200 employees RBPT).

For all the negatives at RB there's a lot of good things happening too, new state of the art wind tunnel coming online in 2026, new state of the engine facility with help from Ford and some of the best talent from other competing engine manufacturers. If would be better for Max to wait out 26 and see who's best rather than gambling on Mercedes.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Very true. I think Horner has dug his grave allowing/watching key elements of this team just walk away. They have eroded from what they once were. I'm thinking Max will go to Merc next year because they likely will have the best engine and I think their chassis will be decent enough to get him into a contending seat for a number of years during the new regs.

Max will know HP figures that RBPT is claiming and "suitors" will show him the same for Mercedes and Honda. His decision will point toward what engine will have more power.

I think delivering HP number for engine is easy part. There will be other concerns such fuel efficiency, reliability, energy recovery, the overall integration between chassis aero, engine and driver.

I doubt there will be any drivers' movement for top teams in 2026.

Ferrari - Charles and Lewis (Unless LH retires)
Mclaren - Lando and Oscar
Merc - George and Kimi
RBR - Max and Lawson(?) or maybe Yuki for 2026?

I remember one pundit, I can't remember who now, saying that the fuel could end up being the biggest difference next year.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

We need to find substantially more pace, but I am not totally without optimism. The TD is coming and maybe the advantage won't be unassailable by then

There's a train of thought though that the teams with the most experience of the flexi wings, so McLaren and Mercedes for example, will be best placed to still have flex whilst meeting the stricter tests.

Only time will tell of course.

[Macklaren]

This is such a tired narrative, big names will continue to switch teams. There is literally nothing RB can do to keep these people, if they are being offered a promotion/higher pay, especially not in this cost cap era where almost every team is running in the green. Only 3 personnel that are exempt from the cost cap. The same thing will happen to MCL if they have sustained success, there is no escaping it.

This is so true. people tend to forget that that the RBR dream-team was entirely built by poaching technical staff from other teams (ex-Horner and Marko) including McLaren... so its par for the course.