Nanotechnology in F1???????

[RH1300S]

This text is unashamedly pinched from http://www.grandprix.com (interesting comment always available at this little gem )

Nanotechnological advances in F1?
Nanotechnology is the creation and use of materials, devices and systems in the nanometre range. In short, microscopic technology (one nanometre being one millionth of a millimetre). Nanotechnology has already had an enormous impact on electronics but scientists in America and Australia now believe that they have developed a material which would be brilliant for the construction of Formula 1 cars.

In an article in Science magazine, the scientists from Rice University in Houston, Texas and from the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization in Melbourne, Australia, argue that sheets of the material made from nanotubes (miniscule carbon tubes with extraordinary strength) could soon be used in F1. Single-walled carbon nanotubes (SWNT) are tiny cylinders of carbon atoms that have 100 times the strength of steel (and a sixth of its weight) and have been proven to conduct electricity better than copper. The material is self-supporting and transparent and has been shown to have solar cells capabilities which could mean that they would be able to produce electricity. These amazing properties obviously have applications in aerospace and the military and in a variety of other industries (for example they could be used to create clothes which repel dirt) and it makes perfect sense that they could also be used in F1 where the location of weight is of vital importance.

"We could see this on Formula 1 cars by next season.," says racing enthusiast Andrew Barron, Professor of Materials Science in the Department of Mechanical Engineering and Materials Science at Rice University. "This is a jumping-off point for a technology a lot of people will pursue."

It does use the word "strength" not "stiffness", so I suppose you can't read too much into it - except it's very interesting

Isn't Carbon Fibre something like 10 times the stiffness of steel @ 1/3rd weight? So, this stuff is 10 times "stiffer/stronger" (we don't know which) @ half the weight of CF?

What happens to Ricers/Chavs when carbon black fake cloth is no longer de-rigeur and they have to stick transparent stuff on the dashboard

[Mini Bernie]

You missed out the really great part about this stuff,
it Only Costs $100 per gram.

even for F1 that's too expensive, to build a whole chassis out of.

Never mind, maybe in ten years, when Max Mosley has forgotten about cost cutting........

Cheers,
B.


http://www.pa.msu.edu/cmp/csc/nanotube.html

[manchild]

Why too expensive? 1kg would cost 100.000$. Since they use only several monocoques (chassis) per season it wouldn’t be too expensive for big budget teams.

[RH1300S]

Seems daft to sell really light stuff by weight

[Spencifer_Murphy]

I heard about this method of carbon production a couple of years ago...although I think the article I read at the time was going allong the likes of using this carbon in the manufacture of Planes...or more likely Military Jets. At the time I thought about its uses in F1 but the cost at the time of reading the article was around double the cost now...so back then it really would have been a bit too expensive...even for the highest budget F1 teams....especially with Max's constant meddling to reduce costs.

[DaveKillens]

I've also heard of this new emerging nano technology. It's expensive because to create the material, it has to be "grown" in a specific geometrical manner similar to how silicon crystals are grown for such applications as electrical processors.
But this material has incredible properties.
http://www.nanotech-now.com/nanotube-bu ... -sites.htm
For racing applications, I don't see it being presently used for large components like the chassis tub. But for critical weigh parts like pistons, rods, crankshafts, and valves, the gains may be worth the expense.
There are also electrical and heat properties that seem to hold great promise. For instance, these carbon nanotubes have thermal conductivity. Imagine such applications as having strands of these materials running from the wheel rim into the tire carcass. If a path could be established from the brake disks to the tire surface, imagine going down a straight (where the tires cool off), the driver hammering the brakes, the heat from the brakes being transferred immediately into the tire surface, and presto, you have optimum heat on the tire surface at it's most needed time, entering a turn.

[Steven]

But for critical weigh parts like pistons, rods, crankshafts, and valves, the gains may be worth the expense.
There are also electrical and heat properties that seem to hold great promise. For instance, these carbon nanotubes have thermal conductivity.

Well... it's forbidden in F1 but a nice idea

Imagine such applications as having strands of these materials running from the wheel rim into the tire carcass. If a path could be established from the brake disks to the tire surface, imagine going down a straight (where the tires cool off), the driver hammering the brakes, the heat from the brakes being transferred immediately into the tire surface, and presto, you have optimum heat on the tire surface at it's most needed time, entering a turn.

This is also likely to be forbidden as the wheel rim is to be made from one homogeneous material.

I was thinking that it could be a nice material to (partly) make radiators out of it. It could greatly reduce the weight then, but I'm not sure how conductive this really is.

[DaveKillens]

Yea, I was just speculating. Considering the tremendous cost of such a material, it couldn't be used in great quantities. Yet under the present restrictions on materials, it's hard to see where such a new material could find it's way into an F1 car.
I'm not an engineer who can state the physical properties of it's ability to conduct heat, I am led to believe it's of a very high order. But your idea of radiators is intriguing. If they could transfer heat better, the radiators could be substantially smaller. That may make the cost vs gain assessment swing in favor of such a material.

[manchild]

I read somewhere that monocoque weights only 50kg. If that is correct than spending 5 mil. per monocoque wouldn't be too much (1kg of nano=100.000). The question is specific weight compared to contemporary CF cloth. I don't think that they make more than several monocoques per season and with 400 mil budgets it seams affordable.

Engine & gearbox approx. 100kg, 4 wheels and suspension aprox. 100kg, monocoque approx. 50kg which makes approx. less than 300kg with all other elements - nose cone, seat, steering, radiators, engine cover and wings…

It is oblivious that nano monocoque would weigh less than contemporary CF monocoque which would enable not just more safety but more possibility for trimming the cars weight balance with ballast weights that are (according to this article I read) filling the great gap between weight of the car and driver to that overall 605kg imposed by FIA.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Heres a thought (sorry if sum1 mentioned it I am in a rush and didnt have time to read all your posts)...
...but even if Nano-technology is so expensive could it not be used on certain parts of the car? Maybe use it just on the monocoque or just the side-impact crash structures.

Everybody wins...Max is happy cos the cars are safer and the teams are happy cos the cars weight less meaning they can use more ballast!

[DaveKillens]

You can never have enough safety.
That being said, sadly, in the real world, cost is weighted against safety. If that wasn't true, we would see in every corner in every track, 300 meter ashpalt run-off areas. But if it costs too much, then sometimes compromises have to made regarding safety.
Spencifer, I like and appreciate having more safety and more latitude in ballast, but I also see tremendous costs. This new material, it's impact and other properties related to safety would have to be investigated, and that would probably cost more than even Bernie has. And if a tub could be built, it would cost a smal fortune. How many could a team afford to build? And don't forget they would have to test a few to destruction. So, don't expect Max to allow a change in tub material. It would definitely cost a lot more.
Personally, I'm not a fan of ballast, it's a luxury for the rich. The teams that have the most money can afford to build the lighest components, and of course, use the weight savings to move ballast around. And the purist in me is against having dead weight in what is supposed to be the ultimate race cars. Hey, this is Formula One, not NA$CAR.

[riff_raff]

"Isn't Carbon Fibre something like 10 times the stiffness of steel @ 1/3rd weight?"

Uh....No!!!

What you are referring to are GRAPHITE fibers (the planar fom of molecular carbon). It's modulus of elasticity (in an epoxy matrix) is about 10% greater than steel, and its density is about 17% of steel. Graphite fibers are great in tension, but lousy in compression (you can't push on a thread). So graphite/epoxy composite structures are always designed to put the graphite fibers in tension.