McLaren MP4-12C

[xpensive]

Perhaps those fans will come in handy if you happen to be idling in Bahrain?

[tarzoon]

I don't believe this car should have been dramatic. McLaren is trying to build something here, and they started off with something plain and simple. This car is trying to fill the gap left by ugly ferraris, boring porsches and excessive lambos.

Besides, there's the marketing factor. If you give the audience something dramatic to start your brand new company, what would be the public expectation regarding the second and third cars? My impression is that they started from the middle, and they will come next with a cheaper, baby car, and something exotic later on. The clean lines also help on that side.

Lambo and Aston had a middle-ground strategy when bought by audi and ford, also. The difference is the type of perception they want to give their customers. New brand with a market position to define, where big names have loads of credits and strong, solid image. And we're not talking about a company growing in a shed, like TVR, Bristol or Marcos. The car is not that excessive, so it can (almost) be seen as an everyday car, where owners don't feel the cameras and cameraphoes attacking them in every traffic light.

Their approach is to build something here. Get orders, start selling and build up from there. Although McLaren has a huge name in F1, its 2 1/2 road version cars were for exclusive niches and didn't work out that well in sales/profit: the M6GT didn't even get beyond prototype, the F1 sold just enough to pay the investment, and the McMerc wasn't that much of a success either.

So, as a CEO of a large company that can't sell road cars, what would you do?


Edit:
If it was up to me, I would thing of the Ferrari strategy of putting a name after the model, something to do with their racing tradition. Ferrari does it, bentley does it, even F*c&!ng vauxhall/opel does it.

[marcush.]

Perhaps those fans will come in handy if you happen to be idling in Bahrain?

my fear is more the 4 fans instead of one or two ,the riscs included with the high currents are not small especially with them exposed to the stones and waterspray from the wheels...this is not a traditional front engine fan situation where the fan always sees engine temp +no dirt , water and stones.but then they might have found someone doing a sealed motor and EC technology..interestingly very few of are to be found in current car production .

[xpensive]

My assumption is ,if the two cooling packages are for Charge cooling this is more looking like a fluid cooler than an air to air heat exchanger ,it is really missing big crossection in and outlets .So they might use a air /fluid heat exchanger (possibly Laminova type) in the inlet tract to transfer heat to the fluid which they cool at the front of the car...
Other possibility would be that one of the two cooling packages at the front serves the AC ? or oil cooling?
Nevertheless the split front rear plus left right will not help in terms of weight and efficiecy unfortunatelly ,as we can clearly see 4off quite big electric fans in the car ,that must be something like 8 kilos plus around 1000 Watts electrical power plus cabling ...I feel in that area they might have left potential untapped...

Speaking to a friend who has been working xtensively with turbo-conversions, he xplained that those in front are really water-to-air, serving intake charge-coolers closer to the engine. As well as the AC probably, hence the fans.
Porsche has had similar arrangements.

Conveying compressed air around the car like that would have meant a terrible throttle-response. As for the electric fans, they are of course thermostat controlled and should not be that heavy.

[WhiteBlue]

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/10/ ... ics-in-f1/

some good thoughts about McLaren in super car market.

I think their biggest risk is the lack of brand image for road cars of their own brand. If you have a positive image in the market and augment that with F1 success it is synergetical as in Ferrari. The brand has recognicition in road cars and F1. To come from a small customer base which you share with another brand (Mercedes) is going to be difficult.

Now McLaren may get an engimne issue on top of this if they decide to make their own engines. It would be a brave move but one which could bring desaster very quickly.

[xpensive]

Many car manufacturers, for standard- as well as supercars, don't "make" their engines anymore the way they used to.

I think McLaren asking Cosworth Technologies (Mahle) to build the engine to their spec is the engineerish way to go.

[marcush.]

Speaking to a friend who has been working xtensively with turbo-conversions, he xplained that those in front are really water-to-air, serving intake charge-coolers closer to the engine. As well as the AC probably, hence the fans.
Porsche has had similar arrangements.

Conveying compressed air around the car like that would have meant a terrible throttle-response. As for the electric fans, they are of course thermostat controlled and should not be that heavy.[/quote]

honestly speaking I have worked in P. on exactly these fans not long ago and they do weigh this much,if not more.P.is having 2cooling modules incorporating water +AC Condensors on both sides in front of the front wheels and two air/air heat exchangers behind the rear wheels on the turbo cars (no fans there),so the layout and concept is totally different,at least for 997 /997FL .Today the ECU of the engine is generating pwm signals from maps applicated during car development to the electronics of the fan module which in turn translates this into Fan blade rpm .Fan speed-activation is not only derived from Engine coolant temp ,but also from AC demand,ambient temp,etc...

[xpensive]

Somehow I have a feeling that the McLaren engineers have a vague idea of what they are doing in this particular department.

[Pandamasque]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaK8Vc9_jdE[/youtube]

[mx_tifoso]

Do the English use 'electrics' instead of 'electronics'? I noticed the use of 'electrics' in the position title of one of the McLaren staff members.

Perhaps it was a typo?

[gibells]

Thanks for the video Big Eyes. Watching the interviews in front of the lake, I half expect the lake to suddenly drain and an ICBM rise out and point to Modena.

Seeing the test driver in the cockpit shows how well designed it is. Very form over function. Almost like a superbike with the controls so very close to (either) hand. On track it also seems incredibly nimble.

I can see why they're aiming it at a more usable market. I mean, compare how many 911s you see to Ferraris (any) on the road. We keep looking at Ferrari, but surely Porsche is the benchmark here- (high end 911 GT2). That is what I admire about Porsche, and why I would hesitate to buy a Ferrari (one day!). They seem so reliable and complete, whereas Ferraris seem so highly strung and unreliable.

As far as the engine is concerned, they have to bite the bullet and make a start somewhere. Cosworth Automotive have surely helped many reputable manufacturers develop highly tuned motors, think Ford Rally, Merc 2.3 190E, Audi 80 RS2. Definitely set up their own engine division. They need to establish a reputation now rather than down the line.

As for models I can see the 2nd model being the new F1, and the 3rd being a close 911/Boxster rival. Hats off to Ron.

RULE BRITANNIA

[Giblet]

Thank goodness they hired this guy to do the paint job.



I mean look at this guy. His whole life obviously has led him to this point, and once you live the dream, where can you go from there? This is his epoch. His apex.

[Giblet]

I think they will do fine.

The Mclaren F1 Supercar is still considered by many to be the ultimate car, and it wasn't touched by anything for a very long time after it was unleashed on the world.

I think that is more than enough pinache and clout to make a lower end, "mass produced" supercar.

Nobody has forgotten the F1, although few even noticed the SLR.

[WhiteBlue]

I think these are very different concepts. Although the McLaren 12C shares the same price tag with the new SLS it is radically different in concept. McLaren will hand manufacture limited edition cars with basically very few variations and will initially have one model available.

The SLS will come with electric drive, naturally aspired V8 and as convertible with 20 times the numbers of the 12C. It will be out a year before McLaren will ship their first car. I would not be surprised if Merc would sometimes go to the 1 mil $ segment with an all carbon protype car as well. In terms of making money with these cars I bet Merc will make more and faster profit at lower risk.

The MP4-12C may have a 15% edge in performance and efficiency but frankly you have to be an enthusiast to appreciate that. The car is very much a European prototype concept and I bet the US sales will be nowhere near where the SLS will be. The 12C will live of the F1's image and have a much nicer price tag but in that class of cars mass production and economy of scale will determine success in the market and success of the venture.

McLaren surely have an uphill battle ahead of them to come anywhere near to the point where road cars will support the racing as Ferrari does. My view is by 2020 earliest.

[ISLAMATRON]

The SLS will come with electric drive...

more info please