2025 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

[TyreSlip]

Why is AMR depending on AN for 2025 car, they have all the latest tool to analysis and pinpoint the issues, We do not expect miracles on 2025 car, however a competitive car fighting in upper midfield level for 5th position shouldn't be hard..

It's what is put through that process that makes the difference, not the process that defines the origin of concept.

They can literally put anything through the "process" in systems they've created, it'll just tell them the status of that design. Good, bad or indifferent if it's working correctly.

The thought nucleus is where it comes from. Anyone you can think of ? could there be someone any good at this

+1. The engineers at most of the teams are “worker bees”. Send them down bad tunnels and you will get a bad car. Adrian Newey doesn’t design every little thing on the car. He simply sends the worker bees down the best tunnels (but is also capable of investigating and developing 1 or 2 specific design innovations that make a difference). 2026 Aston will have no inertia from the 2025 product. 2026 will simply answer whether Adrian had good ideas or not, just as every other team. Adrian will establish project objectives like weight distribution, cooling architecture and power, aero efficiency, floor overall concept, grey areas, and then those underneath will follow those tunnels. That is why someone like Adrian can be transformative, so long as he is able to intervene at the concept initiation.

Aston Martin also have a windtunnel allocation advantage which means they will be able to study more concepts than other teams, especially if they continue to languish in the 2025 WCC.

The team is going to need some people to step up when Newey retires one day. Pierre Wache thought he was that guy when he overruled Newey on car direction in 2024, and it's been a slow deterioration at Red Bull since.

[Farnborough]

Why is AMR depending on AN for 2025 car, they have all the latest tool to analysis and pinpoint the issues, We do not expect miracles on 2025 car, however a competitive car fighting in upper midfield level for 5th position shouldn't be hard..

It's what is put through that process that makes the difference, not the process that defines the origin of concept.

They can literally put anything through the "process" in systems they've created, it'll just tell them the status of that design. Good, bad or indifferent if it's working correctly.

The thought nucleus is where it comes from. Anyone you can think of ? could there be someone any good at this

+1. The engineers at most of the teams are “worker bees”. Send them down bad tunnels and you will get a bad car. Adrian Newey doesn’t design every little thing on the car. He simply sends the worker bees down the best tunnels (but is also capable of investigating and developing 1 or 2 specific design innovations that make a difference). 2026 Aston will have no inertia from the 2025 product. 2026 will simply answer whether Adrian had good ideas or not, just as every other team. Adrian will establish project objectives like weight distribution, cooling architecture and power, aero efficiency, floor overall concept, grey areas, and then those underneath will follow those tunnels. That is why someone like Adrian can be transformative, so long as he is able to intervene at the concept initiation.

Aston Martin also have a windtunnel allocation advantage which means they will be able to study more concepts than other teams, especially if they continue to languish in the 2025 WCC.

There's very clever people all through these teams, whether they have tbe scope to direct it fully is another matter.

We can easily put names out in this sphere:- Barnard, Murray, Newey, Brawn, Byrne et al. Just to mention some. All though, having good overview and just as importantly, to pull out characteristics in subordinates that even they may not have realised was within them.
It's being able to see potential in design application and people themselves that builds formidable teams, those then able to outperform another team of individuals trying to meet the same level of succes.

The rule set being restricted in many directions, takes a very detailed and intricate approach in bringing concept through to full and quantified status in validation.

[Otromundo]

Honestly, I'm quite confused by the current situation. Even more so when I see the progress and improvement of the teams that were previously below us. That's why I often think the car's original design has flaws. And that to fix them, we'd have to start with a new chassis of different dimensions, with new suspensions, and probably also new transmissions. But all of this is impossible to do now ...

I trust Mr. Diffuser is right and that the main flaw lies in the car's floor. I hope AN knows the right modifications and that manufacturing the new floor will be easy. It would be a godsend.

I must also admit that, by following MotoGP at the same time, I'm starting to get saturated with so many regulations, tire types, practice sessions, sprint races and qualifying, real-life races... I think they're going too far with their spectacle approach.

[KimiRai]

I don't understand the discussion here. Why should Newey work on 2025?

I think there is an element of Alonso fans which do not want him to suffer an entire season & want things to improve quickly because we know time is running out for him. But the timelines of Alonso and Aston are different.

[diffuser]

Honestly, I'm quite confused by the current situation. Even more so when I see the progress and improvement of the teams that were previously below us. That's why I often think the car's original design has flaws. And that to fix them, we'd have to start with a new chassis of different dimensions, with new suspensions, and probably also new transmissions. But all of this is impossible to do now ...

I trust Mr. Diffuser is right and that the main flaw lies in the car's floor. I hope AN knows the right modifications and that manufacturing the new floor will be easy. It would be a godsend.

I must also admit that, by following MotoGP at the same time, I'm starting to get saturated with so many regulations, tire types, practice sessions, sprint races and qualifying, real-life races... I think they're going too far with their spectacle approach.

My guess is as good as anybodies!!!

[diffuser]

From moving F1 stafff

Gioacchino Vino, Chief Aerodynamicist Mercedes -> Aston Martin F1 (Same Position).

[AR3-GP]

I don't understand the discussion here. Why should Newey work on 2025?

I think there is an element of Alonso fans which do not want him to suffer an entire season & want things to improve quickly because we know time is running out for him. But the timelines of Alonso and Aston are different.

I think something that has not been factored in is the delay of Cardile. Most Ferrari recruits are already doing well in others teams (Simone Resta at Mercedes and David Sanchez at Alpine).

Cardile probably could have steered some sense into this package without Ferrari delaying his gardening leave. When Cardile arrives, we may see some improvement with the little budget they will have remaining for this year.

[KimiRai]

Cardile probably could have steered some sense into this package without Ferrari delaying his gardening leave.

If Cardile worked for Aston for a short period of time at the start of 2025 before Ferrari intervened... perhaps some Ferrari information has been relayed, but still unlikely I guess. And not enough time for the base AMR25, updates at best.

[peewon]

I don't understand the discussion here. Why should Newey work on 2025? Historically speaking, it is very rewarding to get the first year of regulations set correct (engines and chassis). 2025 means nothing to a team like Aston Martin and no one will remember it if they do well in 2026. Even the top teams (Ferrari, Mercedes) have said that they will abandon 2025 if they are not fighting for the championship in 2025. Ferrari did that in 2021. So why would Aston even bother after the failure of the launch car?

If I ran the team, 2025 would be completely sacrificed.

I dont necessarily want AN to work on this car but having a competitive car in '25 might be helpful for a couple of reasons:

A. Alonso doesnt emotionally fly off the handle. B. The team shows some competitiveness and stress tests all aspects of the operation besides the car itself. Can the design staff under Newey show more competence than they have so far? Stuff like that.

If having a competitive AMR25 can happen without Newey's involvement, all the better as it will answer a lot of those questions.

[collindsilva]

I don't understand the discussion here. Why should Newey work on 2025? Historically speaking, it is very rewarding to get the first year of regulations set correct (engines and chassis). 2025 means nothing to a team like Aston Martin and no one will remember it if they do well in 2026. Even the top teams (Ferrari, Mercedes) have said that they will abandon 2025 if they are not fighting for the championship in 2025. Ferrari did that in 2021. So why would Aston even bother after the failure of the launch car?

If I ran the team, 2025 would be completely sacrificed.

I dont necessarily want AN to work on this car but having a competitive car in '25 might be helpful for a couple of reasons:

A. Alonso doesnt emotionally fly off the handle. B. The team shows some competitiveness and stress tests all aspects of the operation besides the car itself. Can the design staff under Newey show more competence than they have so far? Stuff like that.

If having a competitive AMR25 can happen without Newey's involvement, all the better as it will answer a lot of those questions.

Spot on, we are not asking for miracles, just to be competitive, regular in Q3, regular in points, not back of the grid..

[-wkst-]

Cardile should manage the engineers team, to put everybody at the right place at the right time and not design the car itself. In this sort of things he should be very good.

Maybe that's missing currently a bit, although Bell has also massive experience.

For sure though, as Michael Schmidt explained here and there, Newey is absolutely no "manager", he is still a design guy who needs someone organizing the departments.

Therefor I am still hoping for a PR statement from AMR that they made an agreement with Ferrari that he can start now and not only in July...

[Farnborough]

Cardile should manage the engineers team, to put everybody at the right place at the right time and not design the car itself. In this sort of things he should be very good.

Maybe that's missing currently a bit, although Bell has also massive experience.

For sure though, as Michael Schmidt explained here and there, Newey is absolutely no "manager", he is still a design guy who needs someone organizing the departments.

Therefor I am still hoping for a PR statement from AMR that they made an agreement with Ferrari that he can start now and not only in July...

This may be (obviously an opinion) but can't show much from tbat statement about operational needs. He's clear in his book about approach on arrival at RB, that of understanding exactly who is capable, who thinks they are, those that are suppressing development path, those that offer unnatural resistance etc, etc. Thats all part of anybody who will have ultimate responsibility/blame for failure in future. That has to be done from that role. If those compromise weren't present, then they'd have been successful already, but they aren't.
Something is stopping them, that needs to be sorted in the people by promoting the positive, reduction of the negative as he sees it.

Both his snd John Barnard's books offer clear insights to this necessary process, in two very different teams. James Vowles too in his work at Williams.

[-wkst-]

Why do you think he had Pierre Wache at RBR, who became TD at RBR in 2018? Exactly because he needed someone who take off work from him in terms of organizing things. We are not in the 90s anymore, where some great ideas were enough to be competitive, F1 became so unbelievable professional, with many new (digital) tools.

Schmidt once claimed in his video blogs that persons close to hime describe him as a genius, very old school and pretty chaotic.

[AR3-GP]

Spot on, we are not asking for miracles, just to be competitive, regular in Q3, regular in points, not back of the grid..

Aston Martin has not had a real technical director since last October, when Fallows left the role. Cardile has not arrived yet.

Remember what Mclaren said. The same people from the losing days are there today. They simply reorganized the leadership.

[-wkst-]

The term "technical director" was pretty misleading at AMR in the last years and the term is not used anymore.

Fallows joined the team with this titel, working on the same level as Furbatto (engineering director) and McCullough (perfomance director), he was not their superior, all 3 were reporting to Green (the head of the technical department, officially called CTO).

At the start of the 2023 season Green was moved aside (rumours say because he didn't get along with Whitmarsh). I guess at this time they had the "McLaren structure", 1 head for each department, but no head for all departments anymore.

That changed in 2024 again, when Bob Bell joined the team as "executive director". In the press release the team described him as the guy "with the overall responsibility for the Technical, engineering and Perfomance functions". So Bell is more or less the successor of Green.

Now it is clear that Cardile, once he joins, will be the new Green/Bell, with Newey somewhere above him.

Bell seems to be (also looking at his age) a temporary solution since 2024.

The successor of Fallows is Eric Blandin. Not called "technical director" anymore but "aerodynamics director".