2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[bananapeel23]

McLaren were briefly incredibly fasd ton the straights. Particularly in Baku 2024 where their flexible wings were so effective that Leclerc was barely faster than Piastri despite DRS and a tow. I'm also pretty sure Ferrari ran an unusually small wing in Baku and still couldn't catch Piastri down the straight.

So to say that the McLaren was always slow in a straight line isn't quite true. The 2022, 2023 and early 2024 cars were bricks, but from about Miami 2024 until now they've been pretty consistently quick down the straights. The rear wing "mini DRS" ban in late 2024 slowed them down a bit, but they were still quick.

Oh come on man, now you're just making things up. McLaren had a really low-load beam wing configuration for Baku, so on top of the mini DRS, it was obvious they were going to be fast without DRS. Still, even with all that, they weren't setting any impressive non drs speedtraps. Oscar was most of the time slower by 1-3 kmh compared to Russell non-drs speedtraps during the race.

Even on races they dominated last year, McLaren was consistently in the bottom half of the top speed numbers.

Because Piastri only ever got DRS with a weak/no tow and on relatively high fuel. The car was absolutely disgustingly fast on the straights, but that doesn't quite translate when you only ever got DRS on high fuel with a single car slipstream and no slipstream when out in front.

[Emag]

McLaren were briefly incredibly fasd ton the straights. Particularly in Baku 2024 where their flexible wings were so effective that Leclerc was barely faster than Piastri despite DRS and a tow. I'm also pretty sure Ferrari ran an unusually small wing in Baku and still couldn't catch Piastri down the straight.

So to say that the McLaren was always slow in a straight line isn't quite true. The 2022, 2023 and early 2024 cars were bricks, but from about Miami 2024 until now they've been pretty consistently quick down the straights. The rear wing "mini DRS" ban in late 2024 slowed them down a bit, but they were still quick.

Oh come on man, now you're just making things up. McLaren had a really low-load beam wing configuration for Baku, so on top of the mini DRS, it was obvious they were going to be fast without DRS. Still, even with all that, they weren't setting any impressive non drs speedtraps. Oscar was most of the time slower by 1-3 kmh compared to Russell non-drs speedtraps during the race.

Even on races they dominated last year, McLaren was consistently in the bottom half of the top speed numbers.

Because Piastri only ever got DRS with a weak/no tow and on relatively high fuel. The car was absolutely disgustingly fast on the straights, but that doesn't quite translate when you only ever got DRS on high fuel with a single car slipstream and no slipstream when out in front.

I was talking about non-drs speed with no slipstream. Top Speed which is entirely down to drag.

With DRS they have had an even smaller gain to the top speed compared to the others so it doesn’t help your point either. I don’t know where you get the “disgustingly fast” from. I base what I say on actual data and I’d be happy to provide you with speed traps and telemetry data from the last two years that prove my point about McLaren being one of the weakest teams in terms of drag and top speed. Since this is irrelevant to the thread here though, I won’t continue any further. Feel free to reach out on DM if you want “the proof”.

[Space-heat]

Did I miss in the article but I did not read in that AutoRacer article that there can be no fix to the ride height issue. I also haven't seen it attributed to the suspension. Or is the information in other articles?

I know the suspension has been touted as the issue but have we had AR or similar reputable source pinpointing what is causing the ride height issue and that is can't be fixed? Charles seems to have suggested post Bahrain (I think) that a fix is coming just not as soon as he would like.

There was some clarification not in the article on Giuliana and Duchessa's Twitter accounts. Giuliana's is still up I think, or it was when I checked half an hour ago.

But anyways, what I meant is that Ferrari is not expected to change the suspension design this season. Not that they aren't trying to fix the issue of the height. Sorry if that wasn't well explained. For the height, that wasn't really clear but they said they're trying to widen the operating window so that probably falls under that?

To be honest because the article isn't as doomposty as their previous ones, it feels like a good sign to me about where they think Ferrari's progress is. If they thought Ferrari was totally lost they would've made it into a bigger deal.

If they have a stream this week I plan to attend and bother them because their information has been a bit inconsistent the past few weeks. For example a few weeks ago they claimed the height wasn't a prominent issue. I wonder if this is just the AR team getting news from conflicting sources, or if it's Ferrari uncovering more and AR reporting it as it goes. I just remembered Duchessa said engine news would come "soon" too...

Sounds good. They twitch updates are great. Might be next week before they have meaningful information with no race this weekend.

My hope is Imola is a solution to the ride height (be it stiffening components, springs or other) and Spain is an bigger package aero update (floor, body, etc) to accommodate the new TD. Season seems to hinge on the ride height, without being able to run at the planned height, making a leap back to McL is unlikely, there just isn't 3/4 tenths to be found at this stage of the regs.

This is deja-vu after Spain last year all over again, waiting to confirm they botched the floor in Austria and Silverstone. Hoping a fix was coming in Hungary. Nothing if not consistent.

I know the over-flexing gearbox theory is near impossible but what I find most mad, is that they ran an experimental floor from Vegas last year that was a precursor to the 25' floor. So how did they botch the suspension. It just seems unlikely as that geometry stayed largely the same. Unless the front sus having a knock on effect on the rear but I don't have near enough knowledge on vehicle dynamics.

[ScuderiaLeo]

Sounds good. They twitch updates are great. Might be next week before they have meaningful information with no race this weekend.

My hope is Imola is a solution to the ride height (be it stiffening components, springs or other) and Spain is an bigger package aero update (floor, body, etc) to accommodate the new TD. Season seems to hinge on the ride height, without being able to run at the planned height, making a leap back to McL is unlikely, there just isn't 3/4 tenths to be found at this stage of the regs.

This is deja-vu after Spain last year all over again, waiting to confirm they botched the floor in Austria and Silverstone. Hoping a fix was coming in Hungary. Nothing if not consistent.

I know the over-flexing gearbox theory is near impossible but what I find most mad, is that they ran an experimental floor from Vegas last year that was a precursor to the 25' floor. So how did they botch the suspension. It just seems unlikely as that geometry stayed largely the same. Unless the front sus having a knock on effect on the rear but I don't have near enough knowledge on vehicle dynamics.

They are doing a stream tonight - rest assured I will be there and hopefully they talk about some interesting stuff. Sometimes I wonder if their articles are intentionally vague to get people to watch the stream...

Your post reminded me that a few weeks ago (specifically March 28, yes I went back and checked!) AR had mentioned the gearbox as being relevant to the issues, but they haven't mentioned it since then. I wonder if it was incorrect or if they just don't have more info on it right now. BTW when they talk about the suspension I believe they mean the rear, as that's what they said multiple times back in March.

Last season Ferrari's fixes post-Hungary were all very good, and came in a similar timeline than this year's (two months). I am relatively confident their Imola upgrades will help. I have no idea about future ones though. There hasn't been any talk about upgrades post-Imola as far as I'm aware but maybe I missed something.

Are other teams expected to bring upgrades to both Miami/Imola and Spain?

[Space-heat]

Sounds good. They twitch updates are great. Might be next week before they have meaningful information with no race this weekend.

My hope is Imola is a solution to the ride height (be it stiffening components, springs or other) and Spain is an bigger package aero update (floor, body, etc) to accommodate the new TD. Season seems to hinge on the ride height, without being able to run at the planned height, making a leap back to McL is unlikely, there just isn't 3/4 tenths to be found at this stage of the regs.

This is deja-vu after Spain last year all over again, waiting to confirm they botched the floor in Austria and Silverstone. Hoping a fix was coming in Hungary. Nothing if not consistent.

I know the over-flexing gearbox theory is near impossible but what I find most mad, is that they ran an experimental floor from Vegas last year that was a precursor to the 25' floor. So how did they botch the suspension. It just seems unlikely as that geometry stayed largely the same. Unless the front sus having a knock on effect on the rear but I don't have near enough knowledge on vehicle dynamics.

They are doing a stream tonight - rest assured I will be there and hopefully they talk about some interesting stuff. Sometimes I wonder if their articles are intentionally vague to get people to watch the stream...

Last season their fixes post-Hungary were all very good, and came in a similar timeline than this year's (two months). I am relatively confident their Imola upgrades will help. I have no idea about future ones though. There hasn't been any talk about upgrades post-Imola as far as I'm aware but maybe I missed something.

Are other teams expected to bring upgrades to both Miami/Imola and Spain?

Yes, hopefully.

Vasseur/Serra confirmed at least one large upgrade enroute. Unless the Imola upgrade is very large. I had assumed the big package was Spain. I would have thought they want to implement the ride height fix separately to confirm and then a bigger package later, rather than everything at once. Unless the ride height issue is aero based issue.

Red Bull have been confirmed by reputable sources for Imola and Spain. Merc - Imola confirmed by Allison. McL I haven't read. I assume all the teams will need to bring something for Spain with the new technical directive, surely if you are going to lose front DF you are going to need to rebalance with the floor or similar. Complete guesswork.

[Farnborough]

Sounds good. They twitch updates are great. Might be next week before they have meaningful information with no race this weekend.

My hope is Imola is a solution to the ride height (be it stiffening components, springs or other) and Spain is an bigger package aero update (floor, body, etc) to accommodate the new TD. Season seems to hinge on the ride height, without being able to run at the planned height, making a leap back to McL is unlikely, there just isn't 3/4 tenths to be found at this stage of the regs.

This is deja-vu after Spain last year all over again, waiting to confirm they botched the floor in Austria and Silverstone. Hoping a fix was coming in Hungary. Nothing if not consistent.

I know the over-flexing gearbox theory is near impossible but what I find most mad, is that they ran an experimental floor from Vegas last year that was a precursor to the 25' floor. So how did they botch the suspension. It just seems unlikely as that geometry stayed largely the same. Unless the front sus having a knock on effect on the rear but I don't have near enough knowledge on vehicle dynamics.

They are doing a stream tonight - rest assured I will be there and hopefully they talk about some interesting stuff. Sometimes I wonder if their articles are intentionally vague to get people to watch the stream...

Last season their fixes post-Hungary were all very good, and came in a similar timeline than this year's (two months). I am relatively confident their Imola upgrades will help. I have no idea about future ones though. There hasn't been any talk about upgrades post-Imola as far as I'm aware but maybe I missed something.

Are other teams expected to bring upgrades to both Miami/Imola and Spain?

Yes, hopefully.

Vasseur/Serra confirmed at least one large upgrade enroute. Unless the Imola upgrade is very large. I had assumed the big package was Spain. I would have thought they want to implement the ride height fix separately to confirm and then a bigger package later, rather than everything at once. Unless the ride height issue is aero based issue.

Red Bull have been confirmed by reputable sources for Imola and Spain. Merc - Imola confirmed by Allison. McL I haven't read. I assume all the teams will need to bring something for Spain with the new technical directive, surely if you are going to lose front DF you are going to need to rebalance with the floor or similar. Complete guesswork.

I feel this is the case too. Obviously they don't want to disclose much to competitor teams either, but makes me wonder if the real problems are discussed.

This is relevant ..... specifically at 2:06 timeline onward as it discussed this area of final approach in floor to track dynamics and the aero effect at that point? Ignore the headline title, its the suspension detail he gets to thats important.



The point (all of them are affected by this too) is just how to arrest downward travel as maximum load comes onto chassis WITHOUT firing that energy into the tyre carcass that's effectively undamped.

Just putting a "stonger" spring is not the simple answer people are projecting.

[Space-heat]

They are doing a stream tonight - rest assured I will be there and hopefully they talk about some interesting stuff. Sometimes I wonder if their articles are intentionally vague to get people to watch the stream...

Last season their fixes post-Hungary were all very good, and came in a similar timeline than this year's (two months). I am relatively confident their Imola upgrades will help. I have no idea about future ones though. There hasn't been any talk about upgrades post-Imola as far as I'm aware but maybe I missed something.

Are other teams expected to bring upgrades to both Miami/Imola and Spain?

Yes, hopefully.

Vasseur/Serra confirmed at least one large upgrade enroute. Unless the Imola upgrade is very large. I had assumed the big package was Spain. I would have thought they want to implement the ride height fix separately to confirm and then a bigger package later, rather than everything at once. Unless the ride height issue is aero based issue.

Red Bull have been confirmed by reputable sources for Imola and Spain. Merc - Imola confirmed by Allison. McL I haven't read. I assume all the teams will need to bring something for Spain with the new technical directive, surely if you are going to lose front DF you are going to need to rebalance with the floor or similar. Complete guesswork.

I feel this is the case too. Obviously they don't want to disclose much to competitor teams either, but makes me wonder if the real problems are discussed.

This is relevant ..... specifically at 2:06 timeline onward as it discussed this area of final approach in floor to track dynamics and the aero effect at that point? Ignore the headline title, its the suspension detail he gets to thats important.



The point (all of them are affected by this too) is just how to arrest downward travel as maximum load comes onto chassis WITHOUT firing that energy into the tyre carcass that's effectively undamped.

Just putting a "stonger" spring is not the simple answer people are projecting.

Thanks for the video, was an interesting watch. It will be interesting to see what Imola brings.

[ScuderiaLeo]

I just finished watching AutoRacer's stream. It was mostly them debating, not so much them making statements but I wrote down the parts I found interesting anyway. They spent a lot of the time just discussing the Verstappen Piastri situation to the point where one of them said "guys, I think we should talk about Ferrari too."

• From what they know, Ferrari expected Hamilton to be much closer to Leclerc in pace by now. The team has worked extensively with Hamilton to find better setups but nothing has seemed to give him more confidence. The first few races they tried extreme setups with both drivers and found one for Leclerc that he greatly enjoys, but they haven't found the same thing for Hamilton yet - even though by now (across the five races and their FPs) they have tried almost every option. There is a belief among some (AR staff? Ferrari staff? unclear) that it's up to Hamilton now to meet the team halfway, there is not much the on-track team can do other than hope the next spec is better suited for him.
• As one would expect the team held many meetings at the start of the season when discussing development and what the drivers wanted. At that time the drivers agreed to the same behaviors and in the simulator everything seemed OK, however obviously when the car got on track they found that the balance wasn't similar at all. The drivers were very upset about this and concerned about how such a big error could be made even if these doubts weren't expressed in public. (This is old information they didn't talk about previously so the driver's feelings have probably calmed since.)
• Donadoni mentioned further adjustments to correct the ride height will come after Imola. They then argued about whether this means the team targeting this at Imola and then there are further upgrades expected to correct it even more, if the Imola package is targeted towards a different part of the car, or if no upgrades will come in Imola at all. Giuliana ended the argument by saying he isn't expecting a big package related to the floor at Imola due to the amount of upgrades being worked on along with their projected timelines, so take that how you will.

[Chuckjr]

Insightful commentary supporting the EXACT disaster I predicted the day Lewis signed (starts at 27 minutes). Deny it all you want, but I was correct. Cameron also has some great words about King George before the Ferrari elucidation.

[ringo]

Insightful commentary supporting the EXACT disaster I predicted the day Lewis signed (starts at 27 minutes). Deny it all you want, but I was correct. Cameron also has some great words about King George before the Ferrari elucidation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Cmc3QEBnM&t=1331s

Okay, let's sticky this post for the end of season.

[CMSMJ1]

No.. Let's not ^^^^

[venkyhere]

Insightful commentary supporting the EXACT disaster I predicted the day Lewis signed (starts at 27 minutes). Deny it all you want, but I was correct. Cameron also has some great words about King George before the Ferrari elucidation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Cmc3QEBnM&t=1331s

"oh the humanity" guy ?
I have tried watching his videos, despite my best efforts, my skin crawls.
If there is something important, someone kindly post 3-4 line summary of what's being said, if you don't mind. Grateful.

[bluechris]

Insightful commentary supporting the EXACT disaster I predicted the day Lewis signed (starts at 27 minutes). Deny it all you want, but I was correct. Cameron also has some great words about King George before the Ferrari elucidation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Cmc3QEBnM&t=1331s

Yet i don't see a big disaster according to points. Ferrari is there atm because of a double dnf and not a good car so even if Hamilton have extra 10-15 points the best case scenario would had been to be equal to RB in 3nd place or in 2nd... This is not what we all expected from Ferrari this year.
1st the car needs to be better and then we discuss Hamilton performance who for sure needs to up his game.

[Jdn1327]

Why did ferrari change their entire concept one year before a regulation change? I mean why not evolve last years car which was more consistent and Charles had way more confidence in that car...even sainz won races with it...better than the performance hunting they have to do this year now...and all that too with a mediocre number 2 driver to Charles.

[Fakepivot]

Why did ferrari change their entire concept one year before a regulation change? I mean why not evolve last years car which was more consistent and Charles had way more confidence in that car...even sainz won races with it...better than the performance hunting they have to do this year now...and all that too with a mediocre number 2 driver to Charles.

they team has not given any specific reason as to why and what they would have hoped to achieve, but anything we can think of here is just pure speculation.