2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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bananapeel23
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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JPower wrote:
23 Apr 2025, 17:44
Fakepivot wrote:
23 Apr 2025, 16:31
about Hamilton, him defending against Lando helped Charles later on, while we bad talk how Hamilton is washed blablabla, if it was Sainz he would have rolled red carpet for Lando to overtake him. just saying. I really appreciated Hamilton playing team game at list.
Pretty sure I remember Sainz holding off a charging Perez at Austria in 2023 which helped Leclerc keep his 2nd place finish. Maybe its my imagination.
He also attempted to hold up Piastri and Norris in Monza 2024, which helped Leclerc secure his unlikely win.

Fakepivot
Fakepivot
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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I mean piastre made easy move on carlos there carols didn't really make it too difficult for him to overtake in monza..
not sure if this is trustworthy but - https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... menti.html
new side pod and floor for Imola..

f1316
f1316
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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f1316 wrote:
19 Apr 2025, 21:08
Fred said at the start of the season that we need 5 races to see where everything stands: 5 races in, I think we can very clear that we’re 3-4 tenths off (at best). That’s not horrendous but it’s also not good enough to have a realistic shot of fighting for wins.

Weirdly, I still don’t think we have a great sense of the race pace. Probably the gap is the same but I sometimes get the impression that if not for track position/traffic/strategy it might be a little closer.

[edited out the rest]
I wrote this after quali and before the race in Jeddah and I think it’s even more valid now we saw how the race panned out. Yes, the quali gap is 3-4 tenths, but this race solidified by perception from the other 4 that race pace is actually much closer than that (both are in terms of the leading Ferrari, usually Leclerc).

The problem is that we so rarely see this due to grid position, traffic, strategy etc. and qualifying pace is more important than it has been for a while (maybe as far back as 2010). This is another reason why I think the Bahrain strategy was more flawed than it seemed as it denied the gift we were given of a front row start - even if running behind Piastri (best case maybe in totally clean air at the front) we could have really seen the car’s performance when not blocked by a potentially slower car over a stint. The only limiting factor would have been Piastri’s and that’s *the* pace.

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ringo
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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bananapeel23 wrote:
24 Apr 2025, 10:31
Jdn1327 wrote:
23 Apr 2025, 10:27
SiLo wrote:
23 Apr 2025, 10:22
Changing from push to pull is less of a change than people seem to think. The rest of the car is simply an evolution.
I understand that...but it can't be a coincidence that with the change to pull rod they now have plank wear issues and have to run the car higher...it just seemed like an unnecessary risk when the end of regulation set is approaching.
Hy understanding is that the plank wear was caused by Ferrari moving the cockpit further back. That decision had packaging implications for the gearbox and rear suspension which changed the setup window and forced Ferrari to pick either excessive plank wear and DQs or to raise the ride height and lose pace.
I see on reddit some theory about the rear suspension being too soft. This can align with the plank wear being at the rear of the floor which is not typical. The soft suspension also creates more roll than normal compounding to Hamilton's lack of confidence with the rear end. Of course soft it relative, it could mean stiffness issues, or damping. I suspect it is a combination of both, with damping being the bigger culprit.
For Sure!!

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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f1316 wrote:
24 Apr 2025, 16:13
I wrote this after quali and before the race in Jeddah and I think it’s even more valid now we saw how the race panned out. Yes, the quali gap is 3-4 tenths, but this race solidified by perception from the other 4 that race pace is actually much closer than that (both are in terms of the leading Ferrari, usually Leclerc).

The problem is that we so rarely see this due to grid position, traffic, strategy etc. and qualifying pace is more important than it has been for a while (maybe as far back as 2010).
I dont think we can put anything down to us being some 'x' tenths behind. We are behind, for sure, but a more distinctive advantage Mclaren have is that they are always fast, all the time. Their working window is a mile wide, while the Ferrari's is about the width of a 90's supermodel. Even if Ferrari had ultimate pace that was equal with or even better than Mclaren, we'd still lose out because we'd only be able to extract that here and there, while Mclaren would constantly be good everywhere, in any condition, qualifying or race, doesn't matter.

Mclaren have simply understood these regulations in a way no other team has, and they will not be caught. It's just not gonna happen.

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atanatizante
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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More indepth technical news depicted from the Italian motorsport media, regarding what issues HAM is facing now :

The SF25 car, particularly the new pull-road front suspension, is the platform that today favors the driving style road taken just by Leclerc, as we could see in the last three from qualifying, but especially in race pace where the performance is completely different.

Leclerc's driving style is towards a pointy car while keeping the rear with a slight oversteer, but unfortunately Hamilton cannot replicate this driving style, and this is just one of the many struggles in adaptation for this car.

Leclerc`s setup works better than Hamilton`s setup by managing to exploit the full potential of the front pull road suspension, which is leaning the front end better to trigger that slight oversteer that Charles needs to perform at 100 percent. It is very important to point out that the stiffer suspension setup aimed at the front end generates more load on the front tires by triggering the right operating window more quickly, thus extracting more grip from the tires, thus reducing understeer and tire wear in the race.

Also, the Monegasque setup plays with more pushed camber angles to achieve more precision and responsiveness in corner entry. This is crucial to throw more energy on the front tires by warming up the compound and better exploiting the new stiffer Pirelli tire construction. The 2025 Pirelli tires have reinforced shoulder carcasses and higher inflation pressures in order to reduce lateral slide, acting as a less deformable and a more firmer system. It therefore needs a more aggressive driving style to load the carcasses and put grip on the footprint. Leclerc's driving technique raises the grip performance both in longitudinal and lateral loads, thus eliminating understeer and tire degradation and assigning greater front-end precision. In all this, the pool-road suspension adjusted by Leclerc with greater stiffness has opened up an improved avenue to exploit the potential of the SF25 before corrective developments in the chassis gearbox and aerodynamics arrive ...

Another issue that Hamilton is concerned about is the braking system. There are slight differences between the Carbon Industry brakes he used at Mercedes and the Brembo brakes at Ferrari, which have a different feeling and have a nonlinear response. In addition to that, the accelerator mapping and the energy deployment are totally different. And last but not least, the use of the engine braking in this car's deceleration phase is something entirely new for Hamilton and seems to be a real problem until now.

If the Hamilton situation seems to be at a standstill, Ferrari engineers are already studying solutions to support his clean driving style that prefers a slightly understeering car. Engineers and drivers are focused on changes in driving parameters, building a new setup involving braking and energy harvesting settings. This work affects many areas, starting from the braking distribution system on both axles to avoid lock-ups and violent transfer load among these axles:
- A more elastic suspension adjustment, the goal to improve cornering sensitivity.
- Many parameters that can be changed on the steering wheel by varying the MGU-K strategy, you can customize the release of deployment to make acceleration less nervous, thus reducing oversteer.
- Another tool is the vertical adjuster that intervenes on the motor brake by changing the intensity if you want to avoid lock-ups while keeping the rear end stable, as Hamilton needs.
- To go in the direction of a progressive traction requires new differential calibration. The aim is to evenly distribute the coupling on the drive wheels, avoiding skidding and oversteer.
- Also, the rear suspension follows more elastic and progressive tuning parameters to keep the rear axle leaning in cornering.
- Customizing the set-up for a clean driving style also involves interventions on the camber, less aggressive adjustments bring the front axle to flow, and better meet the needs of driving Lewis Hamilton.

A long work that, on the one hand, sees Ferrari Pro active in satisfying the requests techniques of the seven-time world champion, on the other hand, is indispensable a mental adaptability on the part of the driver to change his driving setting ...
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

Seanspeed
Seanspeed
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Joined: 20 Feb 2019, 20:12

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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That again, sounds a whole lot like a decently intelligent person passing off their speculation as fact.

Cant stress enough how extraordinary it is for Italian media to constantly have this *insanely* detailed information about the goings on with the car and team and drivers all the time.

I mean, with Ferrari engineers and designers and whatnot constantly giving away all this information, why would Mclaren have ever needed to steal anything?! They probably could have just got an Italian journalist to hand over all the information they wanted for the price of a pack of cigarettes. lol

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pursue_one's
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Joined: 28 Mar 2021, 04:50

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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atanatizante wrote:
24 Apr 2025, 21:46
More indepth technical news depicted from the Italian motorsport media, regarding what issues HAM is facing now :

The SF25 car, particularly the new pull-road front suspension, is the platform that today favors the driving style road taken just by Leclerc, as we could see in the last three from qualifying, but especially in race pace where the performance is completely different.

Leclerc's driving style is towards a pointy car while keeping the rear with a slight oversteer, but unfortunately Hamilton cannot replicate this driving style, and this is just one of the many struggles in adaptation for this car.

Leclerc`s setup works better than Hamilton`s setup by managing to exploit the full potential of the front pull road suspension, which is leaning the front end better to trigger that slight oversteer that Charles needs to perform at 100 percent. It is very important to point out that the stiffer suspension setup aimed at the front end generates more load on the front tires by triggering the right operating window more quickly, thus extracting more grip from the tires, thus reducing understeer and tire wear in the race.

Also, the Monegasque setup plays with more pushed camber angles to achieve more precision and responsiveness in corner entry. This is crucial to throw more energy on the front tires by warming up the compound and better exploiting the new stiffer Pirelli tire construction. The 2025 Pirelli tires have reinforced shoulder carcasses and higher inflation pressures in order to reduce lateral slide, acting as a less deformable and a more firmer system. It therefore needs a more aggressive driving style to load the carcasses and put grip on the footprint. Leclerc's driving technique raises the grip performance both in longitudinal and lateral loads, thus eliminating understeer and tire degradation and assigning greater front-end precision. In all this, the pool-road suspension adjusted by Leclerc with greater stiffness has opened up an improved avenue to exploit the potential of the SF25 before corrective developments in the chassis gearbox and aerodynamics arrive ...

Another issue that Hamilton is concerned about is the braking system. There are slight differences between the Carbon Industry brakes he used at Mercedes and the Brembo brakes at Ferrari, which have a different feeling and have a nonlinear response. In addition to that, the accelerator mapping and the energy deployment are totally different. And last but not least, the use of the engine braking in this car's deceleration phase is something entirely new for Hamilton and seems to be a real problem until now.

If the Hamilton situation seems to be at a standstill, Ferrari engineers are already studying solutions to support his clean driving style that prefers a slightly understeering car. Engineers and drivers are focused on changes in driving parameters, building a new setup involving braking and energy harvesting settings. This work affects many areas, starting from the braking distribution system on both axles to avoid lock-ups and violent transfer load among these axles:
- A more elastic suspension adjustment, the goal to improve cornering sensitivity.
- Many parameters that can be changed on the steering wheel by varying the MGU-K strategy, you can customize the release of deployment to make acceleration less nervous, thus reducing oversteer.
- Another tool is the vertical adjuster that intervenes on the motor brake by changing the intensity if you want to avoid lock-ups while keeping the rear end stable, as Hamilton needs.
- To go in the direction of a progressive traction requires new differential calibration. The aim is to evenly distribute the coupling on the drive wheels, avoiding skidding and oversteer.
- Also, the rear suspension follows more elastic and progressive tuning parameters to keep the rear axle leaning in cornering.
- Customizing the set-up for a clean driving style also involves interventions on the camber, less aggressive adjustments bring the front axle to flow, and better meet the needs of driving Lewis Hamilton.

A long work that, on the one hand, sees Ferrari Pro active in satisfying the requests techniques of the seven-time world champion, on the other hand, is indispensable a mental adaptability on the part of the driver to change his driving setting ...
such an Interesting story. Where did you find it?

Rikhart
Rikhart
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Joined: 10 Feb 2009, 20:21

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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So many theories, and yet the most believable and thus most likely to be true is Hamilton has checked out already, he has fallen off the cliff. First Russel, now Leclerc...

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deadhead
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Seanspeed wrote:
24 Apr 2025, 20:57
Mclaren have simply understood these regulations in a way no other team has, and they will not be caught. It's just not gonna happen.
The 2023 Red Bull car exhibited a very similar behavior to the MCL39: fast, in all conditions, on every single track bar Singapore.

It's interesting because McLaren's understanding of these regulations came right as a certain Red Bull engineer, who was also likely responsible for the RB car in 2023, moved to McLaren.

I am very much aware that that this is not due to a single person, but the coincidence is quite striking imo.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Looking on the telemetry, (https://www.f1-tempo.com/) without the journo crystal ball reading, Hamilton's underlying problem is the use of the engine in the corners.
In Jedha qualifying, Hamilton loses considerable time in corner entry and exit by virtue of being in the wrong gear!
Also his throttle use is very different than Charles. Hamilton is more clean, almost binary cutoff with brake and throttle. Leclerc feathers the throttle randomly during acceleration, almost as if he is feeling every throw of the crankshaft of the Ferrari engine.
There are times Charles and Lewis have as much as 20% difference in throttle, with Charles staying on it at 50% while Lewis is at 30%. If we look at entering turns 3 and 4.
Just before turn 3, Lewis engine is 2000rpm higher in gear 7 and Charles in gear 6. Charles has less revs to kill for the corner, so doesn't have to go off throttle too much, which also keeps the platform less disturbed.
So from these first technical corners alone, we see that indeed that he is at a disadvantage by default because he is out of sync with the Ferrari Power Unit.
In another part of the lap, Lewis brakes too hard and kills too much engine speed, also having lower apex speed.
and a following section, goes in too deep again, releases throttle too late and engine revs have a bigger delta, possibly upsetting the car, resulting in less traction on exit and Lewis applies less throttle than Charles exiting.
The last example is the final corner, Lewis comes off throttle later, brakes, later, but his gears are shifting too late into the corner. Charles is has dropped 6 to 3rd and already in third near the apex, while Lewis is coming down from 8th gear to 3rd with more engine speed fluctuation. Charles then has a cleaner corner exit with higher apex speeds.

So long story short, Lewis issue is really how he uses the tools in the car, and how intimate he is with the PU and how to massage the car in conjunction with the PU in the corners. He is truly at sea.

The bright side is, this appears to be mostly studying and practicing in Sim. There is not much evidence to say there is an issue with his reactions, fitness or feel.

The master stroke was dealt by Toto and Mercedes when they prevented Lewis from taking part in the young driver test at the end of the year. That move ensured Ferrari was weakened in the earlier part of the 2025 season.

Lewis just need seat time, and more consultation with the engineers to understand how to gel with the Ferrari PU, and to know what the car needs to optimize the cornering and find pace.

Tyre prep is another thing, but we cannot see this from telemetry unfortunately.
For Sure!!

Fakepivot
Fakepivot
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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deadhead wrote:
25 Apr 2025, 01:30
Seanspeed wrote:
24 Apr 2025, 20:57
Mclaren have simply understood these regulations in a way no other team has, and they will not be caught. It's just not gonna happen.
The 2023 Red Bull car exhibited a very similar behavior to the MCL39: fast, in all conditions, on every single track bar Singapore.

It's interesting because McLaren's understanding of these regulations came right as a certain Red Bull engineer, who was also likely responsible for the RB car in 2023, moved to McLaren.

I am very much aware that that this is not due to a single person, but the coincidence is quite striking imo.
they were very much in the right path before he joined, remember reading something last year, that he was impressed that they were making correct choices.

Fakepivot
Fakepivot
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
25 Apr 2025, 02:48


Lewis just need seat time, and more consultation with the engineers to understand how to gel with the Ferrari PU, and to know what the car needs to optimize the cornering and find pace.

Tyre prep is another thing, but we cannot see this from telemetry unfortunately.
but this is something he could have learnt and practiced in simulator no?

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Chuckjr
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Fakepivot wrote:
25 Apr 2025, 06:59
ringo wrote:
25 Apr 2025, 02:48


Lewis just need seat time, and more consultation with the engineers to understand how to gel with the Ferrari PU, and to know what the car needs to optimize the cornering and find pace.

Tyre prep is another thing, but we cannot see this from telemetry unfortunately.
but this is something he could have learnt and practiced in simulator no?
Correct, but from what I understand Lewis does not like the sims much, and he learns far more quickly on an actual track with actual g forces involved.
Watching F1 since 1986.

kptaylor
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Re: 2025 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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You would think he'd adapt a bit to more sim work given all the press around Max constantly doing sim work, sim racing, etc. Especially entering a new team, new engine, new gear box, new software for deployment, etc., etc.