Concept power units from 2030

[leblanc]

And what about white hydrogen?
If it can simply be extracted from the ground, wouldn’t that require less energy than producing hydrogen?

Yes, and cost per kg is half.

[DenBommer]

And what about white hydrogen?
If it can simply be extracted from the ground, wouldn’t that require less energy than producing hydrogen?

Yes, and cost per kg is half.

So where do the problems still lie?

Extracting, storing hydrogen, liquefying it, burning hydrogen, …?

Or is white hydrogen already in liquid form?

[Tommy Cookers]

And what about white hydrogen?
If it can simply be extracted from the ground, wouldn’t that require less energy than producing hydrogen?

Yes, and cost per kg is half.

So where do the problems still lie?
Extracting, storing hydrogen, liquefying it, burning hydrogen, …?
Or is white hydrogen already in liquid form?

liquid is unlikely
atm the problem (eg for F1) is that most hydrogen will still be made by methods with high carbon emissions
ie hydrogen in F1 could be seen as endorsing it as fuel even if actual F1 hydrogen was made by carbon-free methods
btw 'science' has in effect always played-down the existence of 'white' hydrogen eg to benefit the oil industry
now revelation of historic leakage of natural hydrogen at least weakens a climate case against carbon-free hydrogen fuel

we could imagine an engine with no exhaust gas (oxygen and hydrogen going in and liquid water coming out)
combustion of the hydrogen with oxygen suitably heat-diluted by managed water vapour
vapour condensing to near-vacuum would power an MGU-H equivalent
pitstop for fuel and oxidant

or more plausibly an air-breathing engine with heat dilution or managed exhaust gas recirculation
and allowing fuel carriage as ammonia and combustion as eg 90/10 ammonia/hydrogen blend
no pitstop

what's not to like ? ....
burning gas .... steam .... pistons .... turbines .... electrickery .... green-ness .... road relevance

[mzso]

If you produce hydrogen the worst thing you can do is burn it. It pollutes (due to high temperature combustion) and wastes a good chunk of the energy.

hydrogen may be available as fuel for motor vehicles
there is nothing immutably high temperature about hydrogen combustion

Combustion itself is high temperature, which creates pollutants.

not so much if you use the production waste (heat) for co-located industry or other heating
not so if your (windfarm) electricity would otherwise die unborn yet (as now) still be charged to the (non) consumer

Not really. You need very high temperatures, any waste heat won't do.
There are more efficient power storage solutions that splitting water.

decarbonisation of steel making (ie iron smelting) is the burning of hydrogen
decarbonisation of fertiliser making is by the use of hydrogen
these would eliminate 10% of global carbon emissions

We were talking automotive applications. Combusting hydrogens just wastes a lot more of it.

[mzso]

You can call it fantasy. I call it vision. Have you even researched blue and green hydrogen and ammonia? It's a byproduct we generate already.
Your description of understanding of hydrogen seems archaic to me.

Here's an AI summary for you:

A hydrogen-fueled rotary engine (HRE) is a type of internal combustion engine that utilizes hydrogen as fuel, offering potential advantages like lower emissions and higher power density compared to gasoline engines. Rotary engines, particularly Wankel engines, are well-suited for hydrogen because their design features separate intake and combustion chambers, which can mitigate backfire issues often associated with hydrogen in piston engines.

Hydrogen is often referred to as the "fuel of the future". It's a clean-burning energy source that produces water vapor as a byproduct, unlike fossil fuels which release greenhouse gases. Hydrogen can be produced from various sources, including water, and used to power vehicles, generate electricity, and even heat homes.

There's a ton more research articles you can find from AI search.

A practical and economic hydrogen achitecture/infrastructire is fantasy. I see more potential for success in some sort of bio/synthetic fuel. Utilizing some agricultural waste and used for niches where batteries are not viable because of weight. But even that with fuel cells.

Both "green" and "blue" H is wastes a lot of energy to begin with.
Not sure why ammonia is even brought up, it's a very toxic gas, any leak is likely to cause deaths. And as a more complex molecule it requires more energy to synthesize.
Physics is a nasty thing. No matter how much you want it to be different it won't change. It won't become archaic and obsolete.

AI just regurgitates some well promoted ideas. Even if they're wrong.
Burning H in an ICE is a wasteful way of using it. It's doubly true for rotary. Since no-one demonstrated an efficient rotary engine. The second part with H as an "energy source" is just plain wrong. It isn't an energy source. It's a storage medium, a very troublesome and wasteful one at that.

[mzso]

Would the separate compressor/harvester have enough advantages to worth the extra weight and complexity?

Any really strong reason to not make the engines smaller/ligther with less cylinders?

The electric compressor is to have zero turbo lag and mostly to greenwash the engine so Honda, Mercedes etc are happy
V6 is for sound and for Ferrari (originally the actual ICE project was a 4 cylinder in line, Ferrari asked for V6)

an electric turbo can work at 48v, so you don't need high voltage cables and is al lot lighter than a kers

I would have a K in there, so all of the excess recovered energy can be used. It would be small and light. I imagine it could fully replace the rear brakes. Preferably with little or no weight penalty.

I wonder what would the straight four formula would have been like. Would it have been better in some regards than what we got? (I also despide Ferrari's toxic influence)

[mzso]

And what about white hydrogen?
If it can simply be extracted from the ground, wouldn’t that require less energy than producing hydrogen?

Well, a quick peek at wikipedia shows "most of this cannot be extracted economically".