Lotus T127 Cosworth

[Saribro]

I dont see the point of half scale wind tunnels anymore.

I believe part of the cost-cutting rules mentioned 60% scale max tunnels.

[LotusF1]

Thats not 2009...it is effectively a 2010 car model (look at the sidepods) so its NOT FI, as from what I know they never used AeroLab to design a 2010 car (you have your sources I have mine). I would be careful about your allegations. Your blind...I know FOR SURE that it isnt a FI 2010 car as Lotus designed their own 2010 spec car, and yes...from scratch...maybe scarbs will back the theory up. As for being biased I reckon your close to blind when from this pic it is impossible to overlap cad drawings and say they are 100% IDENTICAL. So get your facts straight.

Most of you people talk without even having worked in an F1 team at all and I hear the most funniest things on this forum, the important thing is to filter the BS and the right stuff...

[axle]

Interesting - so you work for LF1 then? Maybe we should meet as you're down the road from me. Maybe you can explain how the identical parts to FI's are acually 100% Lotus own design

[timbo]

Thats not 2009...it is effectively a 2010 car model (look at the sidepods)

Front tyres look wrong, as they should be narrower.

[Giblet]

Vijay is a very astute businessman.

If a competing team was using intellectual property to gather data, would that be allowed? ie. Would not Dr.Mallya sue the panties off of them? The design is the property of Force India, not Mr. Gascoyne.

[axle]

Vijay is a very astute businessman.

If a competing team was using intellectual property to gather data, would that be allowed? ie. Would not Dr.Mallya sue the panties off of them? The design is the property of Force India, not Mr. Gascoyne.

I'm sure we'll soon know...

[Mystery Steve]

I dont see the point of half scale wind tunnels anymore.
Nick Wirth believes the work can be done on computer based on data base.
The final applications are decided by committee meetings anyway.
I suppose it gives something tangible for the boys to play with.
The difference between half and full has to be re calculated from a computer data base anyway, so I do not see it as being development work, just variations on a theme, like most of F1.

I don't think I can explain this any more clearly, but here goes...

Yes, CFD is a very useful tool. Nick Wirth is not incorrect to say much, if not all, of the initial design work can be done on the computer. However, CFD is human-operated. It is not uncommon, in any industry that uses CFD and wind tunnels, for engineers to build a wind tunnel model and find that the CFD data was incorrect for any number of reasons. As an example, it can be very difficult to get the boundary conditions correct when modeling an F1 car. You have a moving road which is in ground effect with the body and you also have rotating tires that complicate things. The wind tunnel testing filters out many of these errors before the design goes to fabrication.

CFD is a tool. Wind tunnel testing is a tool. FEA is a tool. Tire data is a tool. Engineering is nothing but a collection of tools. A tool is only as effective as the tool who is using it. It all comes down to engineering judgment.

But, I guess a Bachelor's in Mechanical Engineering and a Master's in Aeronautical Engineering are trumped by people who happen to have seen a couple CFD images... Apparently I've wasted a lot of time and money.

On the subject of cost cutting rules: Wasn't the rule limiting the number of hours, and just setting a max scale?

[Richard]

CFD is a tool. Wind tunnel testing is a tool. FEA is a tool. Tire data is a tool. Engineering is nothing but a collection of tools. A tool is only as effective as the tool who is using it. It all comes down to engineering judgment.

You'll like this quote ...

'Structural engineering is the art of moulding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes that we cannot precisely analyse, so as to withstand forces we cannot really assess, in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance.'

Dr. AR Dykes, Chairman, Scottish Branch of IStructE, 1978

[Mystery Steve]

CFD is a tool. Wind tunnel testing is a tool. FEA is a tool. Tire data is a tool. Engineering is nothing but a collection of tools. A tool is only as effective as the tool who is using it. It all comes down to engineering judgment.

You'll like this quote ...

'Structural engineering is the art of moulding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes that we cannot precisely analyse, so as to withstand forces we cannot really assess, in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the
extent of our ignorance.'

Dr. AR Dykes, Chairman, Scottish Branch of IStructE, 1978

I love that quote. I first heard it a couple years ago, and the discussion last night reminded me of it, but I wasn't able to find the exact wording when I searched. Thanks for posting it.

[noname]

'Structural engineering is the art of moulding materials we do not wholly understand into shapes that we cannot precisely analyse, so as to withstand forces we cannot really assess, in such a way that the community at large has no reason to suspect the
extent of our ignorance.'

Dr. AR Dykes, Chairman, Scottish Branch of IStructE, 1978

great!

I think we can remove "structural" from this sentence and it still will be right.

[siskue2005]

Dont know if you guys know this, Alex Younng has said(in Star sports were he commentates)that he will have some major role inside the team.....and the Lotusf1 guy(dont know his name) he was full of praise for Alex

[gridwalker]

The lotus was designed independently of the FI in exactly the same way that the 1995 Benetton was designed independently of the 1995 Ligier challenger ...





These cars had no interchangeable components, but were both teams with strong links to a single individual (in this case Flavio Briatore)... But, still, Ligier were so assured of their car's unique qualities that they proudly ran with the slogan "fabrique en france" emblazoned across their rear wing

[LotusF1]

Interesting - so you work for LF1 then? Maybe we should meet as you're down the road from me. Maybe you can explain how the identical parts to FI's are acually 100% Lotus own design

again..your silly..you speak without knowing the truth and continue talking..silly imo..but if it makes you happy so be it..

[Skunk0001]

For what its worth:

The model is an entirely new model manufactured by Fondtech on behalf of Lotus F1 Racing, and is based on a 2010 spec chassis geometry designed at our Design Office in Cologne, and includes a fuel tank to comply with the 2010 ban on refuelling and associated increase in wheelbase caused by these regulations.

Source + More: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=39381

Interestingly, he doesnt mention the front wing.

[axle]

Interesting - so you work for LF1 then? Maybe we should meet as you're down the road from me. Maybe you can explain how the identical parts to FI's are acually 100% Lotus own design

again..your silly..you speak without knowing the truth and continue talking..silly imo..but if it makes you happy so be it..

I'll wait for the courts verdict.