Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[SoliRossi]

Macca have traditionally had great mechanical grip. I think there are a couple of reasons; The biggest factor IMO is the engine. They clearly ahve the most powerful and driveable engine out there. The brawn shared the same slow speed brilliance that the Macca did this year.
Also Macca have, over the last few seasons, lent towards a short wheel base, from my understanding this also aids in mechanical grip/low speed stability.
WHen it comes to next years front tyres i have an interesting theory. We all know a fewe things, they will be smaller, ie they will yield less grip and require the car to be set up differently so not to over stress them. We also know Hami asks a lot of his front tyres, where as Jens is pretty forgiving on his.
I think Lewis' style will also need to be tempered as they will be carrying a lot of fuel and this will make it even more important not to 'lean' on your tires too much.
Lets face it if you are easy on your tires it will be a huge advantage as it will free up your strategy a bit.
And i actually think that next season we will see a short first stint being the prefered option...
If your tires are used up and you pit before the guy in front of you, you will leave the pits wiht the same fuel as him but newer tires, its possibly you will rejoin in clean air and run your fastest lap times to date. Your opponent will still be on old tires and likley lapping slower than you are on your new rubber. He pits and you jump him. Its just the reverse to this season.

[PlatinumZealot]

Because the number of pit stops per race might be the same as this year, I have a feeling that the more aggressive drivers like Hamilton will still prosper. I can see an aggressive strategy option: Use the tyres 100% and when the tyres are 90% done, just get new ones. Simple as that. As long as the number of pit stops are kept within check the time he gains by going aggressive will keep him in front.

On the other hand if he is going aggressive and Button is somehow still close behind then it all goes out the window.

On the "tailored cars" topic.. I don't know how an engineer can create a car from scratch to match a specific driver's style to the finest detail. I honestly don't know. Are these cars not the most adjustable cars on the planet? What is the point for designing it fixed for one driver when you can just change the many settings anyway. Even street cars can be tuned for hundreds of different drivers, how hard can it be to tune a F1 car for TWO drivers? What happened to all the race engineers and mechanics and testing?

[mstar]

goony mentioned that what you really want is a neutral (as you can get) car to allow a wider spectrum for car set-up. But sure horner admitted that the RB6 will be designing for vettel. so it still confuses me when a car is clearly works to a drivers strengths (i.e alonso and renault are natorious to design a car that has front end grip to suit alonsos driving style)

[Jersey Tom]

goony mentioned that what you really want is a neutral (as you can get) car to allow a wider spectrum for car set-up. But sure horner admitted that the RB6 will be designing for vettel. so it still confuses me when a car is clearly works to a drivers strengths (i.e alonso and renault are natorious to design a car that has front end grip to suit alonsos driving style)

Drivers each have their particular car setup.. but they're subtle differences in balance.

No driver is going to want their car to understeer like a dump truck, or be sideways like D1GP.

Neutral limit performance, almost by definition, is what uses both axles' tires equally and is going to be the fastest way around. Each driver can then have slight variations on this, maybe a bit more understeer than others, or sensitive to load transfer, or different response rates.. whatever.

[mstar]

thanks jersey tom. =D>

But is there anything the mac would be developed to suit Lewis? or any other driver in a team (e.g shumi in his ferrari years etc).

i thought must be something they do to suit the drivers but i am not that much of a expert in this field

[Jersey Tom]

I would suspect the differences are down to how the cars are tuned.. the specifics of what combination of spring, bar, damper settings, tire pressure that each driver prefers. Again, subtle differences. I don't think Driver 1 and Driver 2 are going to want fundamentally different racecars. Grip is grip. Speed is speed.

Now, you can do your testing and development around a specific driver, e.g. have Schumi do all your major development testing since you know he's going to give it all he's got.. but that doesn't mean you're locking the car design into something that only suits him.

[mstar]

well shumi/alonso in there teams did majority of the testing to give development diection (which suits them) problem occurs when the other drivers wants the opposite so which they choose? cannot have 2 seperate development of the car in the season can they?????

[Jersey Tom]

well shumi/alonso in there teams did majority of the testing to give development diection (which suits them) problem occurs when the other drivers wants the opposite so which they choose? cannot have 2 seperate development of the car in the season can they?????

Well first and most importantly, you're assuming two drivers would want the opposite in a racecar. I really doubt that's the case. Subtle differences yes, polar opposites no.

If you find out that adding 1 psi to the tires gets you another 2% of tire grip.. it doesn't matter who's driving the car. If you find out that a different differential lets you put down an extra 100 lbf of thrust out of a corner, it doesn't matter who's driving. It's going to be faster.

You use the best driver to make sure you're not leaving anything on the table, and that the car is being put to as close to 100% of its capacity, as often as possible.

If you do get to the point where you have two options, and its a difference in opinion between drivers.. you gotta go with your best man. Bottom line, you're trying to score the most points. Gonna do that with your best driver.

[wesley123]

the driving styles of both drivers seem alot different, Button is clean while Hamilton likes to drive aggresive, probably one of those guys would get problems, their styles are completely different, would that make the team build 2 different tubs to fit their needs? i know it is possible, might be possible that Hamilton drivers SWB and button LWB or button alot more rear overhang that hamilton to fit their needs. What hamilton probably needs is a car with easy and good turn in, so that would be a SWB if im correct, Button would like a car that handles the same all the way, so the car handles the same turn in as turn out(well in theory), that is actually impossible as turn in is braking, so nose is down, out turn is on throttle so the nose is up.

[meves]

I agree the cars are designed to be neutral. What you find is that when the cars are being developed with feedback from the drivers. Each driver will concentrate their feedback on the areas that affect their performance in the car. For example when Rubens turned up at BAR he found that the traction control was massively underdeveloped as Button didn't use it due to his gentle (in an F1 sense) application of the accelerator. They concentrated on developing the car for Rubens and worked on the traction control and comparatively neglected the brake balance, hence the car began to suit Rubens more and Jenson found the car less to his liking.

So you find that the cars are neutral (in theory), it's just the balance and focus on development is placed where the drivers give feedback. Which is where they feel a difficiency in the car, and not due a design choice by the team or engineers.

[mstar]

yes thats a good example, rubens couldn't understand how fast button was without using traction control. As the team never developed the TC he argued they need to develop this as he cnt drive like Button as he be too slow, as ferrari had the best tc

[ringo]

The only time i think a car can suit a driver is the initial runs in practice. This is where the simulator comes in. The simulator may arrive at a setup for a certain track where it is adjusted to hamilton's comfort. Not saying Button won't uses the simulator, but more than likely Lewis times will be faster and this setup will be the best to take to P1. This setup will be the basic setup to use in P1 for both drivers i assume. However this does not mean the car is built in an inherent handicap towards hamilton.
Button like heiki, will probably drive on the simulator's setup in practice, then they can opt to adjust from there. They eventually will end up with what is comfortable for them. If it is that Button doesn't know how to get to a point where he is both comfortable and competitive, then it would seem the car is not for him, when in fact it is the drivers depth, flexibility and communication that is at fault.


Concerning tyre wear, It is easier for the more aggressive driver to turn down the pace a few notches to save tyres and fuel than it is for a smooth driver to go against his nature and get aggressive. Aggressive drivers are not incapable of smooth driving, that should be an easy task.

What I want to know is if Button being the taller driver, will have a different tub than Lewis, and which tub, the longer or the shorter, will have the advantage.

[mstar]

the mclaren simulator how good is that compared to the rest of the grids? does it allow the drivers to get a preety good guess on a basic set-up before the race weekend???

[SoliRossi]

Ringo, its a fair point about an aggressive driver being able to tone it down etc... However there is a fundamental point you have missed.

Said smooth driver is not only smooth but he is also fast. Said aggressive driver is fast as well as aggressive. So case in point, Jenson is able to be smooth/easy on tires etc... and also fast enough to win a world title. Now if he has a car that needs to be manhandled to get everything up to temp and seeds to be taken to the ragged edge in order to be fast, well its possible that he will struggle in such a car. Sure he can be more dramatic on the throttle, he can sharpen his inputs, that will cause the car to take more wear and tear and so on, however this will not nesecarrily translate into lap times.

The converse could be said for Lewis. He is quick as he drives now, but to assume he can just tone it down and be a smooth driver and have the same lap times is a tough call. Lewis' fastest way around a track is to lean on the fronts like a maniac, he also seems to be comforatable with a Slightly oversteery car etc... now if you say to him I need you to smooth it all out and conserve the car he could do that, however he may also then become slower.

[Fil]

I wonder what sponsors the british pairing will bring to the team?

I know i'm dreaming, but i'd love Jenson's sponsor Monster to take a title sponsorship of the team.. Team Monster McLaren Mercedes.. Black with green rips along it..

it would leave Vodafone's & Santander's reds out in the lurch tho