New points system for 2010

[ISLAMATRON]

Islamatron, its not the same to compare 1-1 knock out tournament events with multi competitor sports with a number of events in a season.

As far as I'm aware the US ball sports you mentioned are arranged in a league. The league champion is the one who collects the most points over a season?

Unfortunately, they do then devalue the whole season by having a play off

You are wrong, in the US league there are no points awarded over a season, unless you count a win as 1 point. And no the whole season is not devalued by having a play off, because only the top winning teams get into the playoff so you can not ignore the regular season, plus playoff byes and home field advantage are awarded to the winningest teams. What the play off does is force you to perform not only at the beginning, or middle of the season but be strong at all points of the season, especially the end.

Interesting that your logic says Lance Armstrong is loser because he never won the most stages in his Tour De France victories?

So, back to my original question, please cite a multi competitor, multi event sport that uses anything vaguely akin to your proposal?

Again, like Giblet you are looking at it from the wrong point of view... it is the TOUR(singular) De France not the tours(plural) de France... It is 1 event broken up into several stages... The winner is the rider with the lowest time over the entire tour. although it would be interesting if they awarded the title to the rider with the most yellow jerseys but then we might see some riders die of exhaustion or just take off some stages to rest in order to attack others. But like a I was saying a stage is more analogous to a lap(in F1) rather than entire race.

and that was not your "original question" I answered your question and then you changed the criteria because my answer disproved your point.

[Richard]

You are wrong, in the US league there are no points awarded over a season, unless you count a win as 1 point. And no the whole season is not devalued by having a play off, because only the top winning teams get into the playoff so you can not ignore the regular season, plus playoff byes and home field advantage are awarded to the winningest teams.

To European eyes that is just incomprehensible.

I guess is a cultural thing. I (and I guess most Europeans) have a league based culture. Most sports have 3 or 2 points for a win, 1 for draw, 0 for a loss. Each side plays each other once home and away. No byes or home advantages or play offs. You look at the total performance over the whole season. Team/person with most points is the champion.

It's the pervading approach for Olympics as well. Some sports (eg pentathlon, equestrian, etc) have points based on performance against the clock. Person with most points wins.

Perhaps it is old fashioned, but I prefer it.

Ps You'd absolutely hate sailing

[WhiteBlue]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... -scrapped/?

SpeedTv reports that the new points system was initiated by USF1 and was passed with very little consultation. There is also concern that it might be scrapped if fewer than expected teams will populate the grid.

In my personal view an underpopulated grid is very unlikely with Lola and STGP waiting in the wings to join the grid.

[Giblet]

Either way points wins whatever can not take into account domination, and it seems they change it frequently to quell it.

If one team or individual dominates early, no matter the sport, they will have breathing room in the latter half of the season, or race.

[Richard]

Either way points wins whatever can not take into account domination, and it seems they change it frequently to quell it.

If one team or individual dominates early, no matter the sport, they will have breathing room in the latter half of the season, or race.

The league system gives a true reflection of performance over the entire year. As they say in football in the UK, "the league doesn't lie".

Play offs do lie, they reward the team who are in form at the end of the season. Also, because the F1 circuits vary so much, a play off would unduly favour the team who's car suits the play off circuit.

[machin]

OK, so my proposed system attempts to solve the following issues in F1:

1, Lack of overtaking
2, Reduced viewer/spectator interest in saturday running (therefore reduced sponsorship opportunities).

Qualifying to be held very similar to the 2010 rules with three sessions, low fuel etc; slowest cars dropping out after a given time limit etc, EXCEPT:- Points are awarded, for example 20 points for 1st place, 16 for 2nd, etc etc,

Sunday's starting grid is the reverse order from saturday's qualifing results, e.g. fastest person starts last, slowest person starts first. The car which covers the pre-determined number of laps first gets (for example) 20 points.. 16 points for 2nd etc....(i.e. like a "normal" points scoring session).

This means that in order to score the maximum points from a weekend a driver MUST qualify fastest AND overtake all the cars on the grid to come first. Of course a fast car might decide to go slow in qualifying, thus gaining himself an advantage in the race, but he won't help his championship because his championship rivals will get high points from qualifying, and assuming they can overtake enough cars, get good points in the race too!!!!

This system rewards being fast over a single lap, AND overtaking, the current system of fastest qualifier starts first doesn't help promote overtaking in any way....

[Mystery Steve]

I mentioned this on the other thread about awarding points for number passes in a race, but I'll point it out again. Do you really believe that if a driver has a realistic opportunity to pass, they will just sit back and take the points? I personally don't buy it. If I'm a driver, the prospect of finishing in a higher position and scoring more points is incentive enough for me to make an effort. I don't see the issue being wanting the pass more, but rather the level of competition being so even that in reality passing is just difficult.

If you want to increase overtaking, the best solution without implementing some crazy points scheme and qualifying scenarios is progressive banking on newer tracks to artificially create multiple racing lines through the turns. And stop putting chicanes at the end of long straights (like Abu Dhabi)... The easiest time to pass is making a run coming out of a tight turn onto a long straight and diving in the inside. But if there is immediately a turn in the opposite direction then it was all for nothing if you can't get by completely. If anything, you should have a long straight followed by two turns in the same direction, or have a hairpin.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=354204

Apparently according to Domenicali there is a push to award points for pole and fastest lap.

[jddh1]

I do not agree with points for pole position. Perhaps I have been in favor in the past, but after some careful thought, I think it's a bad idea.

I think the mid-tier and bottom tier teams will be against this for sure. The winner already will get 25 points. Getting another one or two for the pole will only increase the points gap to the teams that have no chance.

And then you could have the situation where the championship will be decided after the last race’s qualifying session, mathematically of course.

Say, the second placed driver in the standings (Driver B) needs 26 points to win the title, and he knows that to do so he needs pole position and a win on Sunday. Then the other guy, in first, (Driver A) makes a huge mistake early on and destroys his car, leaving the door open for the Driver B.
So now we’re all in anguish as to what’s gonna happen. Driver B goes for pole, but surprisingly, the 5th placed driver in the standings, say Driver C, snatches it at the very last lap (because he needs points too). Now, mathematically, Driver B cannot win the championship any more. Great. The final race just became irrelevant.

I’m sorry, but I’d rather have these emotions flow in the bloodstream only during the race, not qualifying. Besides, winning pole in F1 increases your chances of a race win by quite a lot anyway. That should be incentive enough to go for it. Awarding championship points in non race situations is a huge mistake for the series.

[jddh1]

Moreover, I will accept a point or two for fastest lap. This is a race situation so I'm open for it. I think it makes sense.

[donskar]

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=354204

Apparently according to Domenicali there is a push to award points for pole and fastest lap.

I like it. It rewards a performance accomplishment, AND should help the show. =D>

I'm waiting for the anti-Ferrari loonies to point out how this is a nefarious scheme to ensure Ferrari wins.

[Giblet]

So technically, a driver could clinch the championship on Saturday, or at the very beginning of the race if it goes from dry to wet, or changes temperature rapidly. The Wdc rival would HAVE to get the fastest lap in this case just to make sure the race doesn't end on Saturday. The fully fueled cars will assure that in unchanging conditions the last stint will be the fastest, keeping purple laps from happening early.

The idea of a racer clinching by one point by hammering out a fast lap at the end of the last race has some merit.

It will make it far less predictable, but it's hard to see how many different ways this could effect a championship.

Like Glock suddenly getting fast lap and ruining everytihng for Massa again

[ISLAMATRON]

actually the pro ferrari loonies put enough up bullshit around here, especially you Donskar

Now with low fuel Q3 back a point for pole would be well deserved... I like it.

A point for fast lap is not really that big a deal... giving a point to Kimi who has been half assing it the first half of the race and decides to show he can go fast for 1 lap and then crash it the next does not seem that important to me. The leaders rarely have a reason to push it towards the end of the race, only the guys who messed up early in the race... and with no refueling fast laps will always come in the last 3rd of the race.

[timbo]

actually the pro ferrari loonies put enough up bullshit around here, especially you Donskar

Islam, let's consider hypothetical situation that Luca would proclaim Lewis as the best driver. Your reaction?

[Richard]

actually the pro ferrari loonies put enough up bullshit around here, especially you Donskar

Islam, let's consider hypothetical situation that Luca would proclaim Lewis as the best driver. Your reaction?

From a Ferrari man? That has to be bullshit from anyone with their perspective.

Its all about emergence, as seen from the viewer's perspective ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_psychology