Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[ringo]

It's likely that it doesn't exist. Or is something so subtle, we won't even notice it if it was staring us in the face. But I can't really see it as anything as advantageous as the DDD.
I had a dream a couple weeks ago, after all the dead zone discussion when goony was on. In the dream the Mclaren Mp4 25 was white and orange; but the weirdest thing was that the diffuser was rotating about the longitudinal axis when the car was in the turns. Kinda like those birds of prey who use their tails like a rudder.
Moving aero is illegal anyway but it was an interesting interpretation by my dream.

Cool image though It is really quite amazing what our minds do when they are free in a dream state.

When crows come swooping down, they glide across the ground and you can see their tail feathers acting like a diffuser almost, just an inch or so, but you can tell they are controlling those forces interacting with the ground.

The idea of a diffuser that rotates to stay perpendicular to the ground while the car pitches and heaves would partially have the same effect as active suspension, but not nearly as dangerous as traditional setups where the car can suddenly bottom and skate.

the front wing could be configured to do the same.

You should contract your unconscious state somehow to do your conceptualizing.

I should sleep with a notebook on my forehead next time; maybe the ideas can somehow osmose through my cranium onto the pages.
This has nothing to do with the dead zone but i also saw J Villenue flip a USF1 (yes he got a seat )over on a crash barrier. He was partially trapped underneath.

[bonjon1979]

I have trouble understanding the possibility of this so called 'dead zone'. I thought that it was actually some mischief making on Goony's behalf and there's no such thing. I seem to remember him writing something to that effect in the aero section of this forum but all his posts have now been deleted. Anyway, I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has any ideas about what this could be.

Also, last year we saw the most successful teams deflecting air around the outside of the front wheels. Now we've got thinner tyres again, do we think they'll be directing more air inside the wheels?

[PlatinumZealot]

Just a few cm difference in the wheel width so I guess most of the air will still be deflected to the outside since the wings still extend to the edge of the tyres.

[newbie]

diverting flow inside the wheels - no chance.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, 'dead zone' is the continental european way of saying stagnant/recirculating flow. it is absolutely nothing. aerodynamics has not been reinvented in 3 months...its just a tendency of people on this forum to believe such rediculous things!

[PlatinumZealot]

Suppose it were true?

check this out...Stagnated air may first come to mind but this is another interpretation for the term "deadzone." Maybe It can be connected to F1 if we have the imagination. This "deadzone" is on a wind turbine (which does work obviously) but there might be some relation.

http://www.uwinsys.com/rotorconfiguration.htm

Only the "top" one-third to one-half of a typical rotor blade is actually engaged in converting wind energy into rotational energy. The remainder of the blade is an aerodynamic "dead zone" that does little more than provide support for the portion of the blade that performs the work. The uWinSys system utilizes this dead zone by adding an upwind auxiliary rotor that counter-rotates "inside" the main rotor's arc of rotation. Tests have demonstrated that the turbulence produced by the rotation of the auxiliary rotor actually accelerates and increases the power of the wind flow across the main rotor. Both this phenomenon and ensuring that the main and auxiliary rotors rotate at the same tip speed, result in capturing significantly more rotational energy, which increases the Dual-Rotor System's overall output by 1.2 to 1.3 times that of a standard single rotor system.

To these guys, It's like an area where the interaction with the air is undesirable and then some other more efficient piece handles the air in that area instead.

[PlatinumZealot]

Talk about sensationalism. Look at this article on a Ferrari fan website:

http://ferrarif1forum.com/2009/12/18/ha ... oly-grail/

[ringo]

99% of what was said in that article was made up.
I don't even recall having all that detail in the discussion. The picture was on twitter before it was here anyway.
The idea that the air itself activates the dead zone, is kind of hard to believe.
It should be a wild goose chase if another team suddenly decided to investigate; they could lose precious time on what really matters, the TDD.

Other than the dead zone, i saw this thing on the mclaren website about the koni "inteligent" damper technology that they will be using next year. This could all relate to how well the car rides over kurbs.

While the regulation changes for next year's Formula 1 World Championship are not as extensive or radical as those introduced at the start of 2009, the new rules - which include the banning of refueling and the introduction of narrower front tyres - will inevitably require some serious thinking from all teams if they are to be exploited to their fullest extent.

Not least of these are the additional considerations that stem from carrying significantly heavier fuel-loads through the race - increasing fuel-weight from around 60kg for a typical two-stop strategy to more than 150kg for a full race distance, and slowing laptimes by as much as five seconds at the start of each grand prix.

In order to cope with these demands, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes and Dutch shock absorber manufacturer KONI have extended their successful partnership, which will continue the Formula 1 team's use of KONI's unique frequency selective damping (FSD) system.

FSD's hydraulic system can be tuned for aerodynamic stability, but, when the going gets tough, such as when a grand prix car is travelling over kerbs, it will adopt an optimum setting for handling and feel of the car.

For 2010, optimal damping will be essential: the heavier cars will require a stable aero platform, particularly where damping assists most: the entries and exits of corners. By reducing unwanted vehicle movement while simultaneously improving driver 'feel', KONI's FSD system provides 'instant' laptime.

"KONI's FSD is intelligent damping," says McLaren Racing's managing director, Jonathan Neale. "FSD thinks for us - so it gives the drivers greater confidence and means they can drive through corners with maximum commitment - something you're always looking for when you're pushing a racing car to operate at its limit."

from: http://www.mclaren.com/latestnews/mclar ... rticle=396

[scarbs]

99% of what was said in that article was made up.
I don't even recall having all that detail in the discussion. The picture was on twitter before it was here anyway.
The idea that the air itself activates the dead zone, is kind of hard to believe.
It should be a wild goose chase if another team suddenly decided to investigate; they could lose precious time on what really matters, the TDD.

Other than the dead zone, i saw this thing on the mclaren website about the koni "inteligent" damper technology that they will be using next year. This could all relate to how well the car rides over kurbs.

While the regulation changes for next year's Formula 1 World Championship are not as extensive or radical as those introduced at the start of 2009, the new rules - which include the banning of refueling and the introduction of narrower front tyres - will inevitably require some serious thinking from all teams if they are to be exploited to their fullest extent.

Not least of these are the additional considerations that stem from carrying significantly heavier fuel-loads through the race - increasing fuel-weight from around 60kg for a typical two-stop strategy to more than 150kg for a full race distance, and slowing laptimes by as much as five seconds at the start of each grand prix.

In order to cope with these demands, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes and Dutch shock absorber manufacturer KONI have extended their successful partnership, which will continue the Formula 1 team's use of KONI's unique frequency selective damping (FSD) system.

FSD's hydraulic system can be tuned for aerodynamic stability, but, when the going gets tough, such as when a grand prix car is travelling over kerbs, it will adopt an optimum setting for handling and feel of the car.

For 2010, optimal damping will be essential: the heavier cars will require a stable aero platform, particularly where damping assists most: the entries and exits of corners. By reducing unwanted vehicle movement while simultaneously improving driver 'feel', KONI's FSD system provides 'instant' laptime.

"KONI's FSD is intelligent damping," says McLaren Racing's managing director, Jonathan Neale. "FSD thinks for us - so it gives the drivers greater confidence and means they can drive through corners with maximum commitment - something you're always looking for when you're pushing a racing car to operate at its limit."

from: http://www.mclaren.com/latestnews/mclar ... rticle=396

Mclarne have simply renewed their sponsorship with Koni, the FSD damper has been a Koni marketing message for a few years now. Strangely McLaren run Multimatic dampers on their F1 race cars...!

[bcoxa]

Perhaps whoever went under the name “Goony” worked for McLaren, and still works for McLaren just not in the department that was stated.

Spreading a little fake intelligence in the hope a team wastes the odd resource investigating… or less sinisterly just keeps the interest in next years McLaren buzzing along.

I can’t imagine every member is geniune.

[Pandamasque]

Talk about sensationalism. Look at this article on a Ferrari fan website:

http://ferrarif1forum.com/2009/12/18/ha ... oly-grail/

Clearly that goony affair captured the imagination of some people. At first when I doubted this whole story, I kept myself from screaming "photoshop!". Now when I see how the whole trick worked out, I'd like to draw your attention to something.

Did anyone else notice that the blurry image (see link above) is somewhat more blurred exactly where it matters? Look at the monocoque on the right and people working on it. There's horizontal 'motion blur' applied on them so you don't see the shape of the tub properly, nor the faces of the personnel working on it. However things right next to the burred areas are much clearer. It looks as though the image was carefully edited. And remember that it comes from someone who posted from his phone seemingly struggling to use a message board properly.

[Fil]

Talk about sensationalism. Look at this article on a Ferrari fan website:

http://ferrarif1forum.com/2009/12/18/ha ... oly-grail/

Clearly that goony affair captured the imagination of some people. At first when I doubted this whole story, I kept myself from screaming "photoshop!". Now when I see how the whole trick worked out, I'd like to draw your attention to something.

Did anyone else notice that the blurry image (see link above) is somewhat more blurred exactly where it matters? Look at the monocoque on the right and people working on it. There's horizontal 'motion blur' applied on them so you don't see the shape of the tub properly, nor the faces of the personnel working on it. However things right next to the burred areas are much clearer. It looks as though the image was carefully edited. And remember that it comes from someone who posted from his phone seemingly struggling to use a message board properly.

goony didn't post that photo on here, i did.
he unnecessarily confirmed it as genuine and named one of the mechanics seen in the photo.

it was a direct link from the official McLaren Twitter page, TheFifthDriver.
there was, and is, nothing dodgy about that photo being available on the internet. it was a teaser by McLaren'sw social media dept, and blurred by them for obvious reasons!

here it still is on their Twitpic user account.. Link

[JoeE]

I read both the main Twitter ac and the eshop one and that pic was uploaded to
it by the team themselves.

I hope there right at the front. This is my main team so I want to see good results all season resulting in both titles. It's gonna b a hard fought season but I feel we can come out on top.

As for "dead zone". Am guessing it's leaked ron speak lol

[Pandamasque]

goony didn't post that photo on here, i did.
he unnecessarily confirmed it as genuine and named one of the mechanics seen in the photo.

it was a direct link from the official McLaren Twitter page, TheFifthDriver.
there was, and is, nothing dodgy about that photo being available on the internet. it was a teaser by McLaren'sw social media dept, and blurred by them for obvious reasons!

here it still is on their Twitpic user account.. Link

...but after the user requested forum moderators for all the photos to be removed as his job was in jeopardy because of the information he has provided...

[ISLAMATRON]

Panda, you should really pay better attention instead of just making things up, it was clear at all times that Goony did not post that pic.

[Fil]

...but after the user requested forum moderators for all the photos to be removed as his job was in jeopardy because of the information he has provided...

Here's the page on our forum. My post (6 days after you joined us) is still there, as is the picture.
Goony requested HIS photos, that were posted up by Siskue, be removed. Which were duly taken down by Siskue.
Again, there is nothing secret or controversial about the photo mentioned by that Ferrari forum's article of fiction, that was posted on this forum, .
This is a great example of how 'news' you read on the internet, is not always as truthful as one may assume it to be.
The author of that article has made up 90% of the facts he claims & sensationalised the rest.

"Journalism" at its finest.