The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

[mcdenife]

WB wrote:
attack the post, not the poster!

ooops, an oversight I meant to attack the pillar rather than the post....er. Oh well next time.

WB wrote:
That post is not an original source. I don't feel the need to comment on all opinion pieces posted here. Since you are asking I feel it is badly written.

What, someone else did this before him? Seems someone cant handle fact even when broken down piece meal. Perhaps you 'd like to share with us your chronology of events'. Oooops I forgot, its not relevant.

WB wrote:
If you want to compare it with a good blog I would recommend Joe Saward's various entries to his blog at http://joesaward.wordpress.com/ . Joe is an excellent F1 journalist who writes very good articles and his opinion on Briatore is pretty much identical with my view.

.....And this is meant to lend some kinda credence to your ramblings? Now that is funny. Which of his opinions on Briatore coincide with your views?

[WhiteBlue]

WB wrote:
If you want to compare it with a good blog I would recommend Joe Saward's various entries to his blog at http://joesaward.wordpress.com/ . Joe is an excellent F1 journalist who writes very good articles and his opinion on Briatore is pretty much identical with my view.

.....And this is meant to lend some kinda credence to your ramblings?

sorry to disappoint you, but Saward was only used as an example how to write a high quality blog or online comment...

Which of his opinions on Briatore coincide with your views?

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/01/ ... -decision/
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/01/06/fallout/
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/01/ ... al-action/
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/01/ ... -briatore/

The last URL carries one of the strongest opinions about F1 personalities I have read from Saward for a long time. I do not always share Mr. Saward's view but I happen to agree with this.

As readers of this blog know, I am no fan of Briatore. As far as I am concerned his arrival in the sport marked the start of a slide into an unpleasant and utterly ruthless era, which did nothing to help Formula 1 grow.

His demise was yet another PR disaster for F1. To illustrate this point it is necessary only to point to The Guardian newspaper’s recent survey to establish who would be named “Villain of the Decade” in sport. Briatore. In a separate article he was also listed as a finalist in the anti-Sports Personality of the Year award for 2009, designed for people whose behaviour “has gone some way towards damaging sport’s image, be it eroding the moral values we consider great or by making the back pages appear a little murkier than they should be”.

[mcdenife]

WB wrote:
sorry to disappoint you, but Saward was only used as an example how to write a high quality blog or online comment...

Ah, I see. Bearing in mind this is not a blog but a forum debate, I can assure you I am not disappointed.

WB wrote:
The last URL carries one of the strongest opinions about F1 personalities I have read from Saward for a long time. I do not always share Mr. Saward's view but I happen to agree with this.

Joe Saward wrote:
As readers of this blog know, I am no fan of Briatore. As far as I am concerned his arrival in the sport marked the start of a slide into an unpleasant and utterly ruthless era, which did nothing to help Formula 1 grow.

His demise was yet another PR disaster for F1. To illustrate this point it is necessary only to point to The Guardian newspaper’s recent survey to establish who would be named “Villain of the Decade” in sport. Briatore. In a separate article he was also listed as a finalist in the anti-Sports Personality of the Year award for 2009, designed for people whose behaviour “has gone some way towards damaging sport’s image, be it eroding the moral values we consider great or by making the back pages appear a little murkier than they should be”

.

I agree with most of that and he couldnt leave soon enough but I reiterate what I said previousely:

whether you like him or not, saint or devil incarnate, FB was unfairly treated by the FIA as this outcome demonstrates

If I were to have a debate with Joe, I think even he will agree.

[timbo]

I agree with most of that and he couldnt leave soon enough but I reiterate what I said previousely:

whether you like him or not, saint or devil incarnate, FB was unfairly treated by the FIA as this outcome demonstrates

If I were to have a debate with Joe, I think even he will agree.

And that is the problem and purely Max Mosley's fault -- creating a structure that is so corrupted that it can't get rid of (supposedly) even more corrupted personalities within itself.

[mcdenife]

Timbo wrote:
And that is the problem and purely Max Mosley's fault -- creating a structure that is so corrupted that it can't get rid of (supposedly) even more corrupted personalities within itself.

There has been quite a bit of uncalled for sarcasm or belitteling on my part re this discussion and I apologise. However in all seriousness, I think you have hit the nail on the head regarding something WB himself has mentioned countless times. How can a team manager/principal, FB, also be a driver manager (or run a driver manager business) but the FIA never saw anything wrong or did anything about it? To my mind, it is so wrong on so many levels (but morall especially) that there is no better (or worse if you will) demonstration of 'conflict of interest'. We could all point our fingers at FB but in fairness to him, the rules seemed to allow it since the FIA remained silent about it for god knows how long. If you look up the definition of incompetence (and self serving at that) there will be a picture of Max Mosley right next to it.

[WhiteBlue]

Sure, for some people everything is Max Mosley's fault. I wonder who will be the next fall guy when they discover F1 past MM still has problems.

[andartop]

Bernie.

[timbo]

I wonder who will be the next fall guy when they discover F1 past MM still has problems.

Yeah, it does have problems... But... It's a couple of months without <anything>gate. I'd say we're doing quite well. *knocking on the wood*

[mcdenife]

WB wrote:
Sure, for some people everything is Max Mosley's fault. I wonder who will be the next fall guy when they discover F1 past MM still has problems.

We can quote chapter and verse to you from now till kingdom come but I dont think it will make a blind bit of diff. Yes everything is Max's fault and I think its time you shut the --- up and give it a rest, its Friday and I am trying to enjoy a good whiskey..

[Giblet]

Chill. No need to raise the language up a level.

To shut someone up, don't read their posts.

[mcdenife]

To shut someone up, don't read their posts.

We may say it (in jest or otherwise) but we cannot really shut anyone up (thats the the whole point of a debate). Did it occur to you that I may like reading his posts (not saying I do but hey ho, or is that ho hum). if you have nothing constructive to add, stay out.

[mcdenife]

dup-post sorry

[raceman]

drool, man

[Giblet]

Swearing at members is not constructive. Don't post like a fool. Control anger.

Asking a member to tone it down is more constructive than swearing like a teen.

[mcdenife]

There is/was no anger. It was meant to be lighthearted. Regardless, who died and made you god? If you have nothing to add to the debate but what you see hurts your eyes, look away.