USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

[The FOZ]

We use CATIA at work, and that certainly is not CATIA. I'm almost convinced its SW. Really surprises me.

Solidworks does not handle large assemblies particularly well, nor does it do complicated surfaces particularly well.

From the little red icon and the interface layout..

I'd never seen that picture before. Yeah...that's definitely SW.

I just can't imagine why they'd want to use that, given the shortcomings you've mentioned, and the weak multi-user environment. I just checked my copy of 2010 Premium, the multi-user environment isn't terribly different than what I've worked with.

Unless they are using something else for the surfacing modelling...

EDIT: They have to be using something else, SW doesn't have any composite layup utilities that I know of, and their latest vid does show layup software.

[simplefan]

I didn't see the piece behind the rack at first. So with torsion bars at the top is it then the third spring/shock arrangement?

Article in RacinToday.

http://www.racintoday.com/archives/13543

[cooper-climax]

I should first point out the I have zero CAD knowledge, but this....

..is a fairly old photo that first surfaced in Early October. It looks like Jason Anderson, and he is in the area now used for PR and media, not the design room. Is it possible that they just needed something on the monitor, and used the design that the Anderson boys have been working on for the last year at home?

[Mystery Steve]

We use CATIA at work, and that certainly is not CATIA. I'm almost convinced its SW. Really surprises me.

Solidworks does not handle large assemblies particularly well, nor does it do complicated surfaces particularly well.

From the little red icon and the interface layout..

I'd never seen that picture before. Yeah...that's definitely SW.

I just can't imagine why they'd want to use that, given the shortcomings you've mentioned, and the weak multi-user environment. I just checked my copy of 2010 Premium, the multi-user environment isn't terribly different than what I've worked with.

Unless they are using something else for the surfacing modelling...

EDIT: They have to be using something else, SW doesn't have any composite layup utilities that I know of, and their latest vid does show layup software.

Yeah, those drop-down icons at the top of the workspace are a dead give away. BTW, I was specifically referring to how the endpoints are drawn; I should have been more clear. I am aware of the different types of drafting lines. I've actually done hand drafting before... if anyone hasn't tried it, it can be very fun and relaxing. How big is the engineering staff at USF1? If they basically have a large FSAE team, then I don't think SW would be a huge issue if they're diligent with parts management. From the videos, it looks like they're all in one open room anyway so communication may not be an issue.

Does anyone know how much a site license (or individual install) costs for SW relative to Catia? I thought SW was near the less expensive end of the scale, and may be a reason they're using it...

[madtown77]

One note, racingtoday.com indicates that the undertray has been an outsourced component, hence not needing a larger autoclave if they wish to do it in one piece.

Also says that their crash tests are not yet complete

[The FOZ]

Yeah, those drop-down icons at the top of the workspace are a dead give away. BTW, I was specifically referring to how the endpoints are drawn; I should have been more clear. I am aware of the different types of drafting lines. I've actually done hand drafting before... if anyone hasn't tried it, it can be very fun and relaxing. How big is the engineering staff at USF1? If they basically have a large FSAE team, then I don't think SW would be a huge issue if they're diligent with parts management. From the videos, it looks like they're all in one open room anyway so communication may not be an issue.

Does anyone know how much a site license (or individual install) costs for SW relative to Catia? I thought SW was near the less expensive end of the scale, and may be a reason they're using it...

I learned how to draw on the board before anything else...I didn't find it as relaxing, though...but then again I have the scrawl of a 6-year old!

We bought a SW license in December of '09, base price is $4K plus $1200/year maintenance. Canadian $$$, that is. SW Premium is $8K plus the same maintenance fee.

[Jersey Tom]

Solidworks can be around an order of magnitude less expensive than CATIA.. though it really depends how many "modules" you buy.

CATIA has mechanical design modules.. composite design modules.. CNC machining modules.. all variety of things. If you get them all.. I've been told the total cost is 40,000+ USD. Per copy

If they basically have a large FSAE team, then I don't think SW would be a huge issue if they're diligent with parts management.

If they're basically a large FSAE team.. God help them!!

[madtown77]

If they're basically a large FSAE team.. God help them!!

+1, lol

All that aside, I see no reason SW can't work, just that surface models aren't very easy to create. I had some experience building them and attempting to use them in Ansys CFX and Fluent; it did not prove very succesful.

I'm sure someone better with that kind of modeling would be capable however.

For multiple users, it just means that the full car model will be comprised of several sub-assemblies, each modeled in context of the larger parent assembly. When a change is made in a sub-assembly, it changes the full car model and will update the other sub-assemblies.

I did an internshi at Solidworks and this was one of the projects I worked on. It can be as complicated as you like, but very stable if you planned well enough.

Most FSAE teams using solidworks don't plan very well (or at all), which is why our models always explode half way through the spring.

[Belatti]

Im kinda rooting for USF1, y'know under-dog status etc .... but, I really hope they hire 1 decent rookie (not the Mexican who no-one has ever heard of) and an experienced reasonably current F1 driver.

heck, even Scott speed would be a better choice that Hoseb Lopez!

Oh! dont worry, the Mexican driver Hoseb Lopez who no-one has ever heard of wont race for USF1 !!!

But if they are lucky, the Argentinean Jose Maria Lopez will. And he is way better than that diary-writing emo with a lack of surname

[Timstr]

Have you guys picked up on this yet? Or has it been discussed here already?

A glance at a full-scale, side-view drawing reveals a compact car despite the large fuel cell needed to accommodate races without pit stops. The gearbox, to be built in-house, will be transverse for the sake of packaging.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... n-at-usf1/

Looks like they will reintroduce a tranversal gearbox in F1.

[f1ar]

Peter Windsor arrived today in Argentina to Finish Jose Maria Lopez signing:

http://www.corsaonline.com.ar/2010/01/2 ... entina.php

[ISLAMATRON]

On Speedtv.com, they are reporting that those seats are going for anbout 5 mil each.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... ace-seats/

[donskar]

Have you guys picked up on this yet? Or has it been discussed here already?

A glance at a full-scale, side-view drawing reveals a compact car despite the large fuel cell needed to accommodate races without pit stops. The gearbox, to be built in-house, will be transverse for the sake of packaging.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... n-at-usf1/

Looks like they will reintroduce a tranversal gearbox in F1.

Worked great for Ferrari back in the day . . . Helps packaging and the good old "polar moment of inertia" but will it screw up the air path to the diffuser?

[Mystery Steve]

Solidworks can be around an order of magnitude less expensive than CATIA.. though it really depends how many "modules" you buy.

CATIA has mechanical design modules.. composite design modules.. CNC machining modules.. all variety of things. If you get them all.. I've been told the total cost is 40,000+ USD. Per copy

If they basically have a large FSAE team, then I don't think SW would be a huge issue if they're diligent with parts management.

If they're basically a large FSAE team.. God help them!!

lol, I should have said large FSAE team with expert knowledge... that sounds a little less frightening.

I kind of expected an order of magnitude difference, which is why I asked. The choice to use SW starts to make sense if your design team is small and all in the same room... really no need to spend the money on CATIA or other more expensive CAD packages. I wonder what program they are using for FEA. I haven't messed with composites in SW yet since I haven't had a reason to, but I know programs like ABAQUS handle composites fairly well (assuming you don't end up with crazy imported geometry).

I learned how to draw on the board before anything else...I didn't find it as relaxing, though...but then again I have the scrawl of a 6-year old!

Well, I found it relaxing at least... Then again, my idea of fun includes spending hours grinding tubes and welding them together...

[PlatinumZealot]

Then again, with that small a group it becomes more manageable.

It does look VERY much like Solidworks. I have no real experience with Catia so I can't tell if it could be that. Any hints from those more familiar? Earlier pics also might provide some clues as the picture of the cockpit before looked like it wasn't from Solidworks.

Doing those kinds of surface models in SW would be very difficult as well, since it does not lend itself to organic modeling very easily.

=D> SolidWorks is like a lesser form of Catia, they are like siblings, so you guys are correct they do look similar. They are both made by Dasault systemes and are on the Dasault systemes website. I wouldn't mind getting my grubby hands on catia though... that composite FEA sounds interesting..