Renault R30

[dedge]

But Renault has proved you can some issue : when they fitted Bridgestone tyres instead of Michelin. Something they did not find in their windtunnel.
I think it worth to see how is the real air flow when the wheels spins at high rate.

Interestingly, the flow on the Renault is quite straight on the rear wing plates. Whereas McLaren's seems to be more curvy right?
So I would say that Renault's flow is more controlled... Can somebody explain his mind on this paintings?

[myurr]

everyone with a windtunnel uses flow-viz paint...its a key development tool. However most teams confine it to the windtunnel as any prying eyes will thank you very much for a public display like McLaren and Renault appear to be showing.

It's also used extensively in private tests and shakedowns, such as the straight line tests that the teams occasionally carry out.

I guess McLaren figured that it brings more benefits to use it, even if there are some prying eyes, than to try and keep it secret.

[PlatinumZealot]

Hold on a second! I don't think you can get detailed "top secret" information from the flow by just observing the patterns in the paint. I guess Mclaren have to use some form of chart or photographs or the like from the windtunnel or CFD surface plots, to compare with the paint flow patterns on the actual car. I imagine that they can compare the swirls in the flow with say for example a velocity vector plot.
I just don't see how a bunch of seemingly random patterns, in the eyes of another team is enough detail. You guys have to explain that one to me.

[Giblet]

Hold on a second! I don't think you can get detailed "top secret" information from the flow by just observing the patterns in the paint. I guess Mclaren have to use some form of chart or photographs or the like from the windtunnel or CFD surface plots, to compare with the paint flow patterns on the actual car. I imagine that they can compare the swirls in the flow with say for example a velocity vector plot.
I just don't see how a bunch of seemingly random patterns, in the eyes of another team is enough detail. You guys have to explain that one to me.

The teams will be looking with interest, but they have other stuff to do with their own cars.

Using the Mclaren paint photos to tweak a totally different design and concept would be quite wasteful to other teams. Since the car is not all that fast, why try to understand it.

[thestig84]

Using the Mclaren paint photos to tweak a totally different design and concept would be quite wasteful to other teams. Since the car is not all that fast, why try to understand it.

I do agree that other teams wont try to adopt concepts from other cars at this time of year....totally disagree with your reason why though!!

To say you know its a slow car judging by a 3 day test with so so many variables is very rash! If you do want to take the times seriously it is 3rd fastest car so far.

Mercedes, Williams, Renault and Torro Rosso must have real dogs on their hands!

[Giblet]

Ok since the car is not YET fast, then sure. The green paint should be called problem paint. If everything was tickityboo there would be no green paint at all. So problems there are at Mclaren, and it can be assumed that speed and or balance (Aero or weight) you need to get speed are out.

I know it's just testing, but if THE BOSS can not post a lap that is super quick, then the car is not quick enough yet to win a chapionship. The frenzied work is too reminiscent of last year to ignore.

[Fil]

everyone with a windtunnel uses flow-viz paint...its a key development tool. However most teams confine it to the windtunnel as any prying eyes will thank you very much for a public display like McLaren and Renault appear to be showing.

It's also used extensively in private tests and shakedowns, such as the straight line tests that the teams occasionally carry out.

After doing a bit of research online, Flo-vis paint comes as a transparent UV paint as well (& i'm told this is used by F1 teams as well).
I'm too lazy to try find it, but i distinctly remember a photo from 09's pre-season tests of a Williams crew member, with a UV light in his hand, closely observing the FW31's sidepod..

Whether the other teams also validate at the tests with the transparent UV paint, i don't know, but i'd assume it very likely.

Why McLaren (and seemingly Renault) tend to use a visually apparent flo-vis paint, i'm not really sure..

[ISLAMATRON]

because it is easier to see & read... and reading it was why it was put there in the first place.

[Fil]

because it is easier to see & read... and reading it was why it was put there in the first place.

i get that.
i did mention there is a transparent UV version used too, which rival teams don't get to see, but the team using it gets to check out the results with a simple UV torch in the privacy of their pits..

[myurr]

Ok since the car is not YET fast, then sure. The green paint should be called problem paint. If everything was tickityboo there would be no green paint at all. So problems there are at Mclaren, and it can be assumed that speed and or balance (Aero or weight) you need to get speed are out.

I know it's just testing, but if THE BOSS can not post a lap that is super quick, then the car is not quick enough yet to win a chapionship. The frenzied work is too reminiscent of last year to ignore.

If the McLaren is such a dog then why did Ross Brawn pick out the Ferrari in general and Hamilton in particular as being the fastest cars in the test? Just because McLaren are concentrating on long run pace and aren't gunning for glory laps, doesn't mean the car is slow!

My assessment is that Ferrari and McLaren are out in front, pretty much neck and neck, followed by the Mercedes and BMW's a little way back. Williams are almost there with those guys but Renault are another small step behind.

Ferrari's best times were posted on 8-11 lap runs, McLaren's best time was on a 20 lap run with a 26 lap run being only 0.05s slower. Fuel corrected they're on about the same pace with Ferrari. I think the McLaren is slightly quicker at the moment with full tanks, with Ferrari maybe having a slight edge in qualifying trim, but that may just be a reflection of the test programs they've been running so far.

[Fil]

psst.. Renault R30..


So ladies, gents & others.. whats the tentative initial rating on Petrov after his first day in F1..?

[timbo]

psst.. Renault R30..


So ladies, gents & others.. whats the tentative initial rating on Petrov after his first day in F1..?

IMO he did pretty well.
What I afraid of is that he learns not so fast (spend a couple of years in GP2 before becoming really competitive), maybe because he started racing rather late. And in F1 nobody wants to wait.

[ISLAMATRON]

because it is easier to see & read... and reading it was why it was put there in the first place.

i get that.
i did mention there is a transparent UV version used too, which rival teams don't get to see, but the team using it gets to check out the results with a simple UV torch in the privacy of their pits..

They are engineers not spies...so what if the other teams can see it, that wont help or hurt them 1 bit. Take notice of Ross Brawn... he doesnt waste 1 moment on any of that sillyness... he just gets on with being an engineer... that is why his teams are so successful.

[Fil]

They are engineers not spies...so what if the other teams can see it, that wont help or hurt them 1 bit. Take notice of Ross Brawn... he doesnt waste 1 moment on any of that sillyness... he just gets on with being an engineer... that is why his teams are so successful.

They are spies as much as they are engineers these days.
Hell, they have photographers who supply them with detailed photos of competitors' cars, which are then studied back at HQ for concepts used down to the last detail. Anything potentially transferable is then examined in principle onto their own car.

I thought this was reasonably common knowledge for those that follow F1 closely..

IMO he did pretty well.
What I afraid of is that he learns not so fast (spend a couple of years in GP2 before becoming really competitive), maybe because he started racing rather late. And in F1 nobody wants to wait.

Especially true at Renault too! I haven't really seen much publicly released feedback from the team itself either.. which concerns me. could it be a case of "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all"?

[thestig84]

They are spies as much as they are engineers these days.
Hell, they have photographers who supply them with detailed photos of competitors' cars, which are then studied back at HQ for concepts used down to the last detail. Anything potentially transferable is then examined in principle onto their own car.

I thought this was reasonably common knowledge for those that follow F1 closely..

I agree hence why it doesnt really matter that the other teams can see Mclarens aero paint. Like you say the others will want to see the ideas and work out if anything is transferable....not so much how that component idea works with the rest of a mclaren as it will be totally different if they put it on their car.