Mercedes GP MGP W01

[Jersey Tom]

Forward mass distribution does lead to understeer, all other things being equal.

Forward load transfer leads to oversteer, all other things being equal.

And no, I doubt they misjudged something as simple as that.

[myurr]

And no, I doubt they misjudged something as simple as that.

You'd be surprised - a large part of McLaren's issues last year were misjudgments in weight distribution, that were corrected at the same time as their major aero upgrade. The combination fixed the cars pace, not just the aero package.

[Timstr]

And no, I doubt they misjudged something as simple as that.

You'd be surprised - a large part of McLaren's issues last year were misjudgments in weight distribution,

Same for Ferrari.

[Raptor22]

believe it or not Ross is actually talking about where they need to fix the ballast in the car.

There is a media driven perception that the weight on the wheels is somehow affected by the overhanging bits and pieces. It is true that a longer nose will weigh more and hence pull the cog forward moving weight forward but there is also the centre of pressure of the car to consider.

Since Mercedes is still running last years aero bits, I understand that they are talking purely about shifting mass in the car to appropriate places. Once this is achieved they will work on the aerodynamic centre of pressure and total downforce.

The fixes to the weight distribution are simple and quick. Could be ready for a run tomorrow if they so required.

[DaveKillens]

Let's look at some people's assumptions on testing methods and philosophy. One way a team can approach the release of a new car is to construct it as designed, then test. If nothing is wrong, it works. Last year that worked for Brawn.

But last year, both McLaren and Ferrari were crippled by cars that just weren't right. So the first thing asked is.. "what's wrong with the car?". Fair enough, but when you are dealing with a car where practically everything is new, problem-solving and getting to the real causes of the problem can be difficult. Part of my job is troubleshooting, and when you do that, you eliminate everything you can.

One way to isolate components is to use what is already known, such as last year's parts. When you bolt on the old wings, you know their properties, and what they influence. But if you are using brand new wings, you really cannot say with certainty what they are doing..... and that does not help the troubleshooting process.

Ideally, you introduce new components one at a time, in order to make sure that you aren't installing something dud. But with the annual car launches, you just can't do it that way. So for the initial test sessions, you use what you are forced to .. such as the new chassis, but try to use what was used last year, such as engines, wings. Once you get past the initial testing and are happy with the new components, then you introduce the 2010 spec stuff such as wings, and mega-diffuser . That way, you're not backtracking, and instead constantly moving forward at a constant pace in development.

Anyways, right now the lap times are relevant not in knowing who's quick, but instead learning who's not, and who may have a dud on their hands (such as McLaren and Ferrari last year).

The serious development for speed will come later.

[PNSD]

Nice post there Dave, and Brawns current approach further backs that up with their use of the 2009 front wing floor.

[hasalard]

Anyways, right now the lap times are relevant not in knowing who's quick, but instead learning who's not, and who may have a dud on their hands (such as McLaren and Ferrari last year).

The serious development for speed will come later.

+1

Almost every press release at this time of the year spread and create a positive atmosphere...The car has potential...We have a good baseline bla bla...

I saw Hamilton's comments on last years car after day one..."With the MP4-24, it's a much bigger step than we've had previously but I still felt pretty comfortable straight away. On first impressions, the car does not feel too different from last year's in terms of balance and grip.".Huh? .It is almost impossible and very limited to read and understand anything from teams approaches and methods just like the laptimes they posted on track.However, Ross Brawn's latest comments may be more accurate than general press releases.As far as i remember, in his earlier Q&A's he talked about the possible effects of new front tyres on overall weight distribution.They may miscalculated something in that area and most likely they will try to fix it as soon as possible as he mentioned.Sounds quite logical.

I am not an engineer and there are many people in this forum who know the technical side of cars better than me but as far as i know changing weight distribution isn't a simple thing. it relates with car's fundamental design aspects and based on what i read so far,it seems like 2010 cars huge fuel tanks forced designers to pack the rear ends of cars more tightly and left them with less freedom to make changes on other areas -For example, as reports say Ferrari had to change the position of oil tank to adapt-.

I hope Merc can find a quick and easy fix.I really want to see them competitive right from the start.

[ISLAMATRON]

changing weight distribution is actually quite easy(especially on these cars), and moreso this yera with the 15 extra kg of ballast and no more KERS.

[myurr]

Little bit off topic, but related to an earlier post:

Everyone is jumping on Hamilton's comments at this time last year, but if memory serves they ran the first tests with the 2008 wings on the cars and the car actually looked good and was near the front of the field. It was only at the second test onwards that they ran their new 2009 wings and the problems and visible panic appeared.

[CHT]

changing weight distribution is actually quite easy(especially on these cars), and moreso this yera with the 15 extra kg of ballast and no more KERS.

I really doubt it will be easier this year because of the additional 70 to 90 variable fuel load to deal with.

[luca]

I wonder if Brawn is talking about aerodynamic weight distribution?

He seems to be talking about the weight distribution related to the tyres:

[...]
"We are cracking exhausts and are having to change those every 150-200km. It's a problem we can fix but here it's difficult. We've got a handling imbalance because we are all learning about these tyres here and we've seen straight away some things we want done on the tyres which we'll have done by Jerez."
[...]
Read more here: http://en.espnf1.com/mercedes/motorspor ... /8143.html

[marcush.]

changing weight distribution is actually quite easy(especially on these cars), and moreso this yera with the 15 extra kg of ballast and no more KERS.

I really doubt it will be easier this year because of the additional 70 to 90 variable fuel load to deal with.

the car is longer ,no question about that ,this alone should make it easier to place ballast as the volume of the tub car has increased by around 100 litres.
the change of weight distribution is not significant as the tank sits very close to the CG,but the cG height will change and so will weight transfer and grip with fuelload.
remember only ferrari and Mclaren have additional ballast to play with compared to 2009

[myurr]

remember only ferrari and Mclaren have additional ballast to play with compared to 2009

Not quite true, the minimum weight of the car has been increased so whilst those teams have the benefits of ballast weighing the same as their KERS systems, all teams also have an additional amount of ballast to play with. Can't remember the exact amount but it was something like 15Kg.

[Raptor22]

the carsmass distribution is very easy to change.

You can move ballast around or you can move the whole car around between the wheels by alterng the suspension members.

Without knowing how the car will perform on the 2010 spec tyres, its conceivable that Merc have designed different suspension geometries to allow for shifting the mass balance around the wheels. We'll onlyknow in a weeks time once they have revised the car. then we'll have some insight into their design philosophy.

it is highly likely that Ferrari has struck it lucky and achieved the ideal balance immediately, perhaps thei closer relationship to Bridgestone has helped them here...[opens can of worms]

[raymondu999]

Didn't KERS weigh something like 29kg or so? With Williams developing their flywheel one which would've done it in 19 or 15 kgs? I can't remember exact figures though...