"Working" tyres hard

[raymondu999]

Hey all.

This is a topic that's been bugging me since it's been widely established that the BGP001 works the tyres very lightly. How is it possible that they have all that downforce, and yet it works its tyres very lightly. The Red Bull had less downforce than them, and yet worked the tyres much harder!?

What other factors are actually involved in tyre wear? Thanks!!

[Jersey Tom]

Hey all.

This is a topic that's been bugging me since it's been widely established that the BGP001 works the tyres very lightly.

Widely established by whom? I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Based on what metric? Even if it were true, how do you know it wasn't the driver coaching rather than the car?

How is it possible that they have all that downforce, and yet it works its tyres very lightly. The Red Bull had less downforce than them, and yet worked the tyres much harder!?

What other factors are actually involved in tyre wear? Thanks!!

Tire wear, and abuse, aren't necessarily the same thing. Assuming that the BGP001 does in fact abuse tires less than most others (and I'm not convinced):

Steering and toe settings can certainly play apart in under- or over-utilizing the inside and outside tire. With too much Ackermann, if you're working the outside tire to just about the limit, you'll be beating up the inside tire. Over the course of a run, that adds up.

Inflation pressure could be part of it. Less air might make the tires run hotter.. more heat history is generally bad.

Balance is a HUGE contributor. A car that has noticeable under- or over-steer trim will roast the front or rear tires, respectively.

[Giblet]

I thought it was widely known, discussed, and understood that Brawn had trouble getting heat into the tires at colder tracks.

It was their bugbear for the whole year. I don't know the reasons, but I can't see a car that "works it's tires hard" have trouble getting heat into them?

[Jersey Tom]

Many things are widely discussed. Doesn't mean they're true.

[Giblet]

So I guess we can ignore what Button, Barichello, and Ross Brawn all said.

Maybe they were lieing to us about having trouble getting heat into cold tires.

"Former triple-world champion Jackie Stewart theorized Button's problems were down to the peculiarities of the Brawn car. During a recent visit to CNN, the Scot revealed the leading constructors have problems getting heat into their tires. This is rarely a problem at races in warm climates - like those at the start of the season - but the cooler tracks of northern Europe have seen a marked decline in performance from the all-white cars."

"Button complained about the difficulty of getting heat into his tyres at Shanghai and also struggled with it at Melbourne."

It's not just us making chatter, it was the drivers and team

[raymondu999]

In all fairness to Jersey Tom I think he meant that the "not working tyres hard" part was widely discussed but not necessarily true. The heat problem is necessarily true and probably is

[Giblet]

I was getting cause and effect mixed up I guess. The fact the tires were not getting heat might have less to do with how hard the tires are worked than I thought.

[Jersey Tom]

Nope, I meant the tire heat as well.

I'm just extremely skeptical of anything I hear, particularly from drivers. Plus, generally one person makes a remark.. a couple folks hear it and pass it on as fact.. and then you have a half dozen folks all passing along the same crap.

[WhiteBlue]

Nope, I meant the tire heat as well.

I'm just extremely skeptical of anything I hear, particularly from drivers. Plus, generally one person makes a remark.. a couple folks hear it and pass it on as fact.. and then you have a half dozen folks all passing along the same crap.

I can trust what I see with my own eyes. In summer and particularly the colder summer races Button was weaving on the straits to get heat into his tyres. Nobody does that in a race unless he is really desperate.

The problem really existed and has handed Vettel and Webber race wins that they should not have had without their competitors weakness.

[marcush.]

Nope, I meant the tire heat as well.

I'm just extremely skeptical of anything I hear, particularly from drivers. Plus, generally one person makes a remark.. a couple folks hear it and pass it on as fact.. and then you have a half dozen folks all passing along the same crap.

I can trust what I see with my own eyes. In summer and particularly the colder summer races Button was weaving on the straits to get heat into his tyres. Nobody does that in a race unless he is really desperate.

The problem really existed and has handed Vettel and Webber race wins that they should not have had without their competitors weakness.

stop a moment and think:

I have also seen Button weaving on the straights.Have you ever tried getting heat into tyres by weaving on straights? this is damn impossible.you really do not put much strain in the tyres by wiggling around abit ,as we have seen back then .
The only thing this behaviour might bring is to remove some marbles accumulating on the tyre surface.and this is why he weaved.
If you need tyre temp you have to push ,be it in coner or by acceleraqtion or braking ,that creates temperature.

[WhiteBlue]

stop a moment and think

I'm not sure I like that tone. Do you think you are the only person on this board who thinks? A bit more respect for your fellow forumers would be appreciated.

Re weaving your point does not convince me. By going off line on the straits you collect even more marbles on top of taking a much longer line. It needs a convincing reason to do so.

[Jersey Tom]

If you want your tires to run hot, take air out. Done.

[WhiteBlue]

If you want your tires to run hot, take air out. Done.

not when you are at the lower limit of the window

[F1_eng]

"I have also seen Button weaving on the straights.Have you ever tried getting heat into tyres by weaving on straights? this is damn impossible.you really do not put much strain in the tyres by wiggling around abit ,as we have seen back then .
The only thing this behaviour might bring is to remove some marbles accumulating on the tyre surface.and this is why he weaved.
If you need tyre temp you have to push ,be it in coner or by acceleraqtion or braking ,that creates temperature."

Infact, nothing in that paragraph is true, except for maybe you have seen Button weaving on the straights.
It puts a huge ammount of heat in to the tyres weaving about at 200mph with maybe 20000N pushing down.
Marbles don't generaly gather on the racing line and for Buttom to be weaving every lap as he did, he must have been going way off the racing line every lap.

Absolutely stupid comment, why post it in such a decisive and forceful manner whe its complete rubbish.

[marcush.]

so I apologise for posting an absolute nonsense in a forceful ways.
from my personal experience with admitedly low downforce cars ,this is what I actually measured on track ,so maybe I underestimated the impact of the downforce present.Still I find it hard to believe that 2weaves on a straight should put any
significant heat into a tyre that has the to carry the car thru a corner at a sustained 3 gs of sideforce for seconds in each corner plus the heat input of braking at 4gs acceleration out of the corners.those 20000N are pushing anyways on the tyres so how much weight are you transferring for how long by waving.so maybe it is more a matter of not letting the tyres cool as quick coming out of the corner as a matter of actually putting heat into them ?I´d appreciate if someone could explain .