Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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tk421 wrote:too lazy to look it up: do the fia regs say anything about helmets? i can just picture a newey-designed helmet with its own little front and rear wings :lol:
Don't forget the pull-rod HANS device and the v-shaped helmet ridges :twisted:
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csponton
csponton
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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Image

the first test in Valencia showed the different philosophies by engineers for carrying out the 2010 car and we could appreciate the differences thanks to the early laps. Because of regulatory restrictions in force late last year, which decreed the cessation of the supplementary appendix wing along the car body, the engineers of Formula 1 have had to devise other solutions, often at the limit (... and maybe even beyond) the Regulation, to channel the greatest amount of air as possible to the profiles that most influence the behavior of the car.

Red Bull signed Newey has certainly made the school and the proof is that many cars this year, offering its various aerodynamic born from the genius of British design. The MP4-25 Paddy Lowe is instead a very interesting "special case" and proposes solutions very different from the competition. It 'obvious that to attract the photographers was the much-criticized rear diffuser, which seems to be the Mc even triple. The photos, in fact, testify as McLaren have decided to drastically reduce to the minimum dimensions of change and maximize the amount of air channeled in different speakers, even proposing an unprecedented position of discharges, which are housed in the terminal zone of the casing side in practice over the attack of the upper triangle.

Only photographers and curious fans have noticed the particular solution adopted instead the front, which is cleverly hidden by a black color. While other manufacturers have offered more or less high snouts, McLaren offers a dual solution, rather odd. In addition to the normal face, a standard form, that of car silver / red fluorescent hides a second profile, staying just below the first, which deflects the air flow to the bottom but the sides of the cockpit, which then, thanks the sinuous shape of the side air vents, precisely in the area flows into the diffuser. Furthermore, the depression that is created under the second face, causing low pressure, increases the passage of air beneath the car and causing a ground effect more pronounced. That the solution is functional, at least in theory, it seems obvious, but it will be just the track at the difference between success or failure

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Roland Ehnström
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Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 11:46
Location: Sollentuna, Sweden

Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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tk421 wrote:too lazy to look it up: do the fia regs say anything about helmets?
A helmet creating downforce would put quite a strain on the driver's neck...

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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i don't think the car would gain downforce from that, just the drivers head would fall off (if you think of the weight downforce produces)

more aero efficient - this is achieved now, i think most helmets guide air to the airbox?

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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csponton wrote:Image

the first test in Valencia showed the different philosophies by engineers for carrying out the 2010 car and we could appreciate the differences thanks to the early laps. Because of regulatory restrictions in force late last year, which decreed the cessation of the supplementary appendix wing along the car body, the engineers of Formula 1 have had to devise other solutions, often at the limit (... and maybe even beyond) the Regulation, to channel the greatest amount of air as possible to the profiles that most influence the behavior of the car.

Red Bull signed Newey has certainly made the school and the proof is that many cars this year, offering its various aerodynamic born from the genius of British design. The MP4-25 Paddy Lowe is instead a very interesting "special case" and proposes solutions very different from the competition. It 'obvious that to attract the photographers was the much-criticized rear diffuser, which seems to be the Mc even triple. The photos, in fact, testify as McLaren have decided to drastically reduce to the minimum dimensions of change and maximize the amount of air channeled in different speakers, even proposing an unprecedented position of discharges, which are housed in the terminal zone of the casing side in practice over the attack of the upper triangle.

Only photographers and curious fans have noticed the particular solution adopted instead the front, which is cleverly hidden by a black color. While other manufacturers have offered more or less high snouts, McLaren offers a dual solution, rather odd. In addition to the normal face, a standard form, that of car silver / red fluorescent hides a second profile, staying just below the first, which deflects the air flow to the bottom but the sides of the cockpit, which then, thanks the sinuous shape of the side air vents, precisely in the area flows into the diffuser. Furthermore, the depression that is created under the second face, causing low pressure, increases the passage of air beneath the car and causing a ground effect more pronounced. That the solution is functional, at least in theory, it seems obvious, but it will be just the track at the difference between success or failure
good work, i find it much more helpful when people do pictures like you have so we can see what the parts actually do

bonjon1979
bonjon1979
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Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 17:16

Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

Interesting bit:

'Although Ferrari had faster lap times, McLaren ran more fuel all week and the feeling is that the McLaren may be a shade faster at this point.'

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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Yeah I saw that and was heartened. The times certainly looked better than the headlines suggested, so fingers crossed. Hopefully we'll get a better picture over the next few tests, especially as and when more finalised aero parts appear on the cars.

vinuneuro
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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Ferrari posted quick times in last season's testing too, to the point that almost everyone thought they were ones to beat until BGP came along. I'd weary of their performance in these if I were a Tifosi, considering what happened last year and the fact the car is relatively unremarkable compared to other 2010 cars.

Richard
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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bonjon1979 wrote:http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

Interesting bit:

'Although Ferrari had faster lap times, McLaren ran more fuel all week and the feeling is that the McLaren may be a shade faster at this point.'
Fuel corrected times? He must have some very good inside information ... or the teams are feeding journalists with mis-information?

We should start to see teams going for outright fast laps as the testing progresses, and also full fuel laps. We need to plot the range of lap times (fastest as well as slow) to see the true speed.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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richard_leeds wrote:
bonjon1979 wrote:http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

Interesting bit:

'Although Ferrari had faster lap times, McLaren ran more fuel all week and the feeling is that the McLaren may be a shade faster at this point.'
Fuel corrected times? He must have some very good inside information ... or the teams are feeding journalists with mis-information?

We should start to see teams going for outright fast laps as the testing progresses, and also full fuel laps. We need to plot the range of lap times (fastest as well as slow) to see the true speed.
There is no logic in the McLaren being slow. They have the biggest effing diffusor which seems to work real well according to their flow-viz pics. There is absolutely no reason to be slower than Ferrari. I was also suspecting that they simply sandbag with higher fuel loads. It is so easy. If most teams run say 60-80 kg base loads and you go for 120-140 kg you get this effect. There is still plenty of time to go for quick times later.
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mstar
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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is it the biggest diffuser? :?:

segedunum
segedunum
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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richard_leeds wrote:Fuel corrected times? He must have some very good inside information ... or the teams are feeding journalists with mis-information?
Not really. 'Fuel corrected' wasn't a phrase he used (apart from in relation to Massa and Alonso). The fact is Ferrari haven't yet done the long runs that other teams have been doing. There is hardly beaming pride around that garage. Given the large variances in fuel with the new regulations the six or seven tenths that exist between Ferrari and McLaren currently will disappear in an instant.
We should start to see teams going for outright fast laps as the testing progresses, and also full fuel laps. We need to plot the range of lap times (fastest as well as slow) to see the true speed.
Well, yer.

myurr
myurr
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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I wouldn't even call it sand bagging - it's a sensible approach. Two thirds of the race are going to be with fuel loads higher than in 2009, surely you should be devoting your test time to that period, especially as pace in the early stages tends to be highly influential on the race outcome (admittedly based on previous years).

Alonso may have grabbed the headline times, but this was on a relatively low level of fuel (possibly as low as 10 laps worth) if the reports of running at 2009 fuel levels are to be believed.

But it's still too early to read anything in to the times - the last test was little more than an extended shakedown as teams go through their checklists, make sure the cars work and are reliable, and begin to verify the aero works as expected and responds as expected to changes. The chasing of performance will come later in the tests.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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To me, times are times low fuel or not.. If the ferrari is doing 1:11's why can't the mclaren do it? Were mclaren only testing heavy fuel, or were they intentionally going slow to keep the competition guessing?
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Pup
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Re: Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes MP4/25

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WhiteBlue wrote:There is no logic in the McLaren being slow. They have the biggest effing diffusor which seems to work real well according to their flow-viz pics. There is absolutely no reason to be slower than Ferrari. I was also suspecting that they simply sandbag with higher fuel loads. It is so easy. If most teams run say 60-80 kg base loads and you go for 120-140 kg you get this effect. There is still plenty of time to go for quick times later.
While the Mac's diffuser is incredibly big, it could be incredibly inefficient, too. I do think McLaren has some more speed in it, but nothing is ever guaranteed. I'm sure the Ferrari has yet to be fully would up as well. Jerez will give us a better idea, but I think we have to wait for Barcelona to really get a good idea of who's where. And we've yet to see the Red Bull, or the full Merc.