Mercedes GP MGP W01

[ggajic]

Does anybody know what is Rory Byrne doing now is he anymore involved in F1? He and Ross Brawn were close friends during Benetton and Ferrari days, but I don`t hear anything related to Mercedes GP. Has Rory retired for good? Michael won all 7 titles in Rory designed car so knowing how superstitious he is I`m wondering if he will bring him back in F1 too

[CHT]

changing weight distribution is actually quite easy(especially on these cars), and moreso this yera with the 15 extra kg of ballast and no more KERS.

I really doubt it will be easier this year because of the additional 70 to 90 variable fuel load to deal with.

the car is longer ,no question about that ,this alone should make it easier to place ballast as the volume of the tub car has increased by around 100 litres.
the change of weight distribution is not significant as the tank sits very close to the CG,but the cG height will change and so will weight transfer and grip with fuelload.
remember only ferrari and Mclaren have additional ballast to play with compared to 2009

It will really depend of how each team's approach to accommodate the larger fuel tank. Some might choose to stick with 2009 wheelbase by shifting the driver slightly forward and use a short gearbox, while others might go with a longer wheel base. If the team approach is the latter, then that itself, together with the larger fuel tank should eat into the extra 15kg of weight allowance for ballast.

Excluding the chassis, a fully filled fuel tank itself should be the heaviest single component (at around 150kg) follow by engine 95kg and driver 60kg. And since the weight of the fuel tank is constantly decreasing during the race, it should make sense to have the fuel tank situated right at CG point to avoid huge fluctuation of weight distribution in between race, and this will mean that the position of engine, gearbox and the driver will be shifted further away from the CG to make room for the fuel tank. While doing all that, the next thing will be to ensure that CG doesnt move too much to the front that it starts loses traction at the rear.

Hence without being able to see what is underneath those engine cover, it will be difficult to gauge the 620kg min. weight rule will make it easier for team to acheive the ideal weight balance.

All team should have the additional ballast weight to play as compared to 2009, it is not limited to only 2009 KERS cars because those not running KERS in 2009 were already running with more ballast to fulfill the 2009 605kg min weight requirement.

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

Re Weight distribution changes

I agree 100% with your assertions "CHT".
I posted as much on another site called crashnet and got hounded out for suggestion cars could understeer at the start of the race, but then gradually become neutral and then oversteer towards the end. Possibly even vice versa dependant on what kind set up the team and driver prefers.

As you correctly pointed out, at 160 odd Kg's it is THE single heaviest component in the car. It also does not contain 100% solid content. Yes there are foam lined tanks, but this doesnt change the properties of fuel(a liquid)under GForce, it will lessen the impact but not totally eradicate it.

Even a perfectly balanced car with 160kg of fuel will not be perfectly balanced with 20kg of fuel. This stands to reason, very good to see decent talk on F1 for change. Almost gave up on F1 forums..... [-o<

[vinuneuro]

A good view of the back of the merc, you can see the sensors on the rear wishbones, are they temp sensors? Also the small struts to hold the floor up, I'm suprised they haven't got a more elegant solution.

Blue things are strain gauges. Gives readings on the strain in x, y , xy directions.

Silver look like temperature sensors to monitor the effect on the exhaust on the arms.

I think you have them switched around. Strain gauges will have leads to measure conductivity, ala the silver strips.

[Richard]

There are few pics of the various cars at that angle. I'd love to see a side by side comparison. Might see if I can get time to trawl through the pics over the weekend.

Oh, and if anyone is tempted to do this before me, then the winter test thread might be a better thread to post a comparison

Just like this excellent post from manchild comparing diffusers....

viewtopic.php?p=143628#p143628

[Ganxxta]

Hi there, I´m the new one from Germany

So to my question: How come that the exhaust pipes of the MGP brake every 200km?
I mean the engine is the same like 2009, the exhaust also (?), can it be a problem of overheating, or is it just a mechanical failure or something else?

Like this Board, not so much flaming like in the common german F1 Boards

[flynfrog]

my guess is that the inconel is really thin to keep weight down. Also incon will work harden due to vibration and needs to be heated to its annealing temp while in use other wise it starts to crack.

Maybe they are not getting it hot enough

[Ganxxta]

Maybe they are not getting it hot enough

Could be, the overall temps were also very low about ~5°C, not normal for a race weekend

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

It is well known that there is an engine freeze on at present in F1. There is limited scope for development at present but the exhaust is one of those areas where changes can be made.

No doubt McLaren will get the same engine, But the rest of it(exhaust, firing order etc) is fair game for development and I doubt wether Mercedes would willingly give a competitor(McLaren) its hard earned advantage.
So these pointed exhausts are obviously a development from Mercedes HPE in Brixworth.
Somthing that McLaren may have been surprised by in valencia this past week.

I want to see the 2010 front wing and diffuser on for Barcelona tests. Be good to compare finalised version of each teams cars, and Red Bulls challenger too!

[ringo]

A good view of the back of the merc, you can see the sensors on the rear wishbones, are they temp sensors? Also the small struts to hold the floor up, I'm suprised they haven't got a more elegant solution.

Blue things are strain gauges. Gives readings on the strain in x, y , xy directions.

Silver look like temperature sensors to monitor the effect on the exhaust on the arms.

I think you have them switched around. Strain gauges will have leads to measure conductivity, ala the silver strips.

Ok thanks for spotting that, i was looking for the the loops and it seemed to me the blue things had the loops in them.
The silver things look like thermocouples from here. Not only that but i noticed the blue things were aligned on the hoop and longitudinal axis of the suspension arms similar to how a strain gauge would be mounted. Though you make a good point about the leads, the silver things don't look to be aligned in any specific order.

[ringo]

my guess is that the inconel is really thin to keep weight down. Also incon will work harden due to vibration and needs to be heated to its annealing temp while in use other wise it starts to crack.

Maybe they are not getting it hot enough

Could it be there is a big temperature difference under the engine cover compared to outside?
The Part of the exhaust hanging out could be much cooler than the headers under the cover, maybe setting up some thermal stresses and causing the cracking.
they may have went too far with the tight bodywork, not allowing enough heat to escape. It's also possible the air moving across the exposed pipes have a cyclic cooling effect due to taking turns ect. which adds to the fatigue from the vibrations over long runs.

[djones]

Given how the exhausts issue came over as a total non-issue I would presume whatever it is is very easy to fix and is probably related to the construction of the exhaust rather than bodywork around it etc.

[marcush.]

to put a strain gauge in a position of varying temps -exhaust stream - would cause playing havoc with the reliability of the readings,as of course the influence of changing temps will have a bigger impact on elongation as the loads so normally you would try to compensate for the thermal influence by putting a copper wire into the installation of the straingauge erasing the temp rise ,but with something like an exhaust stream going across the wishbone theres just to quick a change and the range of change will render all your measuring useless ...remember that you try to measure strain coming from suspension loads not temperature raise or fall... so whatever we see here I´m quite sure these are not strain gauges .
I have to admit that my knowledge on strain gauges is limited ,but I had to use them for force measurements on engine components on a actuator rod on a turbocharger ,and this is what the strain gauge specialist was worrying about when we did those measurements .

What we see is in my view temperature measuring devices to give an idea what temps they see at the suspension parts-to either cover them by shields later or get an idea when to scrap the items when they saw too many thermal cycles..

[ringo]

Yeah i think the silver thing, is a thermocouple taped down with heat resistant tape.
The jury is still out on the blue things, which seemed to be aligned like strain gauges.

This W01 seems to have a very narrow waist, i don't think it could get much narrower than this. Shrink wrapped cars seem to be the order of the day.

[outer_bongolia]

Yeah i think the silver thing, is a thermocouple taped down with heat resistant tape.
The jury is still out on the blue things, which seemed to be aligned like strain gauges.

This W01 seems to have a very narrow waist, i don't think it could get much narrower than this. Shrink wrapped cars seem to be the order of the day.

I love this car, but also think the narrowness of the 2010 cars point to one thing: they are getting too long at 5+ meters.

I want to see them at least 1m shorter. Let the teams try to fit everything within that. This would make the cars less stable and amplify the effects of any driver mistakes. Also the airflow around the car would be more messed up, too. It drools me to think of what they would do to keep the wheelbase long while fitting in the front and rear wings.

Sorry, got a little off topic...