segedunum wrote:ringo wrote:Diesel is correct. The car is not designed for a driver style, that's like saying an f22 raptor was designed for an individual pilot's flying style.
No, that's not how it works. While a F-22 might not be designed with one pilot in mind that does not mean that it doesn't favour a certain group of pilots who like to do certain things, and in reality, once it's up in the air, that's what counts. Besides, it has to cater to a large cross-section of pilots whereas a car caters to one or two drivers, so no, the comparison is not really accurate.
It's a very accurate comparison, in terms of operation.
The plane is not designed with the pilots in mind. If it favours a certain group of pilots, it would be unfair to say the design process was guided by this group of pilots. It just so happens this group, lets say deaf people may find the plane easier to fly than blind people, that doesn't mean the main focus of the design was on ease of operation by deaf people.
The plane doesn't really cater to pilots at all really. They are the last thing the engineers think about. The most they consider is fitting the pilot in there fairly comfortably, and then make sure the stick can be operated by human strength.
The car is the same thing. The only factors to consider concerning the drivers are size, strength, and other things relating to actually being able to operate the car.
This was discussed already and i think we came to the conclusion that a driver's style does not influence the design process of the car.
It certainly does. Once a driver says
"I want a car that does this...." it certainly heavily influences the way that future cars on the drawing board are designed. The longer a driver is around the more ingrained that becomes. You cannot just pluck a car built with a certain philosophy and have the driver muck about with the set up for several months trying to get the car to overcome its natural tendencies. It just wouldn't be a sensible thing to do to go against that.
He wants a car that goes fast that's what!
. If the car is the fastest on the track, I doubt the team principal would care if it suits his style. If suiting his style means the car is slower, then they can find another driver. Remember Heiki at Singapore?
If a driver wants the new car to do this or that, he better wait till it hits the track, then the engineers play with the suspension.
I find it almost impossible for an engineer to have a model of a tub, and then have to adjust it so the car "oversteers" or "understeers" more. A neutral car is more variable, less handicapped and easier to setup. A tub is a rigid thing that cannot be changed, it would be a big mistake to be partial about something adaptable like a driver.
The engineers use numerical tools, so the car's design can only be influenced numerically. A driving style cannot be quantified to effect any chance in the designs direction.
The philosophy of the MP4-25, is to be fast like a bat out of hell, Button and Lewis are just little ticks on the bat.
A driver's style is not something quantifiable, so it cannot be a parameter for actually building the car from scratch.
You don't build a car from scratch. You use the sum of your experiences, you use the experience of previous set ups and you use the experience of what you were trying to get the car to do when you went through those. Yes, a driver's style is quantifiable because it is the sum of all of those things (certainly if he's winning) - and that goes into the design of the next car, whether knowingly or unknowingly.
How is it quantifiable; sum of what things? By that i mean can it be put on a spread sheet, or in an equation. The engineer can only effect the car by that type of data. Anything intangible would be reckless, since it cannot be accounted for or measured.
The car can be built from scratch, but i am not arguing about that. What i am getting at is that the engineers do not consider the driver's preferences when designing. I am sure Brawn's 2010 car was almost finalized before they even knew shumacher was coming over. I don't think he will complain about it not having any of his input. He will simply get 100% out of it. If he can go faster, I am sure he would overlook his style.
The car is designed neutral, similar to a fighter plane.
The car never ends up being neutral when it gets on to the track and is driven and the driver has input, that's the bottom line. It either has a natural tendency to one side or the other as a driver gets it to do certain things to gain an advantage, and that's where it starts favouring a certain driver's style. That's the only way you can gain an advantage.
The key word there is track. The track decides what changes from neutral would lead to a faster lap time. The driver's input is his and not his team mate's, so that is a non issue. What's more his input can only change the suspension brake ballance etc. not the car itself. We were talking about developing the car, where you claim the care is born in sin and shaped in iniquity and cannot change it's ways.
Fighter planes also aren't designed to be neutral. They are designed to be somewhat unstable to gave them an edge in agility.
No.. they are designed neutrally, which is why they are considered unstable by mere mortals. The human being cannot react fast enough or accurately enough to regain stability from external disturbances, computer control compensates for the human element. The engineers didn't give a hoot about what the pilot wants.
Repeating that a car is designed to be neutral won't stop it from favouring the style and tendencies of one driver over another. We've seen this time and time again and results also bear it out.
A neutral design won't stop a faster more adaptable driver from being faster. He will find favour if the car can be as fast as possible within his limits i guess.
What we have seen are drivers that can simply get more from a neutral car, which can have it's suspension, ballast and aero offset from neutrality to suit a certain track to obtain the fastest lap time possible. While on the other hand the other driver's limits wont allow him to manage the car at it's fastest setup.
This long response is my opinion anyway. Hope you see what i am getting at here
