Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[myurr]

People said the same things last year, as did McLaren with the comments regarding "this is normal". I'm sorry but this is a serious case of Deja Vu! I would love to be proved wrong.

Difference being last year they kept running 2008 wings, and were visibly off the pace whenever they didn't. This time their pace looks good, especially for Lewis although I'm sure Button's pace will improve over the next few test days.

Things may be amiss, but it's more likely that what they are saying is true this time around.

[segedunum]

The more they keep using these devices the more likely it is that something is wrong. If the figures add up then they add up. You want as much clear air running as possible during testing so you can concentrate on seeing just how fast your car can go under varous conditions.

[thestig84]

The more they keep using these devices the more likely it is that something is wrong. If the figures add up then they add up. You want as much clear air running as possible during testing so you can concentrate on seeing just how fast your car can go under varous conditions.

Or your quite happy with the base line of the car and you know now is the only time to gather this data. Once gathered Mclaren will have the data for use during the in season testing ban where all the other teams will just have a car that was fast under various conditions in February.

People said the same things last year, as did McLaren with the comments regarding "this is normal". I'm sorry but this is a serious case of Deja Vu! I would love to be proved wrong.

They said it was normal because they thought it was normal and they had everything under control with the Barcelona package. As soon as the Barcelona update didnt work they openly admitted they were in trouble. Ive heard they were pleased with the outcome of Valencia test but still very cautious as they were happy after the first test last year.

[outer_bongolia]

The Dutch site claims those were to test the tire wear???

http://www.f1today.nl/live-update/2010/ ... o-de-jerez
McLaren to test many sensors on the car. The sensors are placed behind the front tires, the wear of the tires to measure.

[Roger the knife]

The more they keep using these devices the more likely it is that something is wrong. If the figures add up then they add up. You want as much clear air running as possible during testing so you can concentrate on seeing just how fast your car can go under varous conditions.

Or your quite happy with the base line of the car and you know now is the only time to gather this data. Once gathered Mclaren will have the data for use during the in season testing ban where all the other teams will just have a car that was fast under various conditions in February.

People said the same things last year, as did McLaren with the comments regarding "this is normal". I'm sorry but this is a serious case of Deja Vu! I would love to be proved wrong.

They said it was normal because they thought it was normal and they had everything under control with the Barcelona package. As soon as the Barcelona update didnt work they openly admitted they were in trouble. Ive heard they were pleased with the outcome of Valencia test but still very cautious as they were happy after the first test last year.

Maybe all this is a result of last years debacle. Having had to go through a complete aero re-design last year, they learnt so much from the techniques used, flo-viz, areo sampling rigs, that they consider it worthwile continuing with this form of data gathering even if they think the car is a bullet. You can never have too much data, but if you don't have it, you're going to have to guess

[tarzoon]

What i think is happening is this:



The blue line is what i think is happening, the yellow one is what i think is what they would like to happen, and the red box is what could be the stall zone, or what was once vaunted "the dead zone" once uppon a time. I think that if there is a problem its with turbulent air coming from the stall zone and falling on the rear wing, decreasing efficency from the rear wing, thus effectivly giving up valuable percentage points of downforce from the rear wing, and thus making their diffuser less stable from above, thus making the rear end a little less stable.

Its the front aero map that governs the rest of the cars efficency and downforce levels, and they may well have the best front aero map for pure downforce, but the way it affects the air that travels behind it could be where the fault lies, so they may have to compromise on eht front aero a little to get what they want from the rear areo map. The car that altered its front end aero the most last year was Force India, and with tremendous results at Spa and Monza, and led them to have a great base to build on for their new VJM/03 that was launched yesterday.

Im trying to think lateraly here, as it could be the simple thing that is affecting the major thing.

If they want to measure air flow as you say, isn't it better to use a different sensor displacement? One that has longitudinal and vertical sensors?

That configuration leads me to think that they are measuring the flow into and around the sidepods, cheching for turbulences created by the nose, just like the opening in front of the driver in the previous test was. If you notice carefully, the rig has at least one motor to move the structure up and down.

I'm sorry I'm not including a picture at the moment, I'll try to do it later - if it still makes sense.

[segedunum]

Or your quite happy with the base line of the car and you know now is the only time to gather this data.

You don't do that at the expense of other things you need to do in the tests.

[Richard]

You can never have too much data

We know that McLaren already had collective OCD on this. The development of insitu data capture is like an eternal wet dream for them.

[ringo]

What i think is happening is this:



The blue line is what i think is happening, the yellow one is what i think is what they would like to happen, and the red box is what could be the stall zone, or what was once vaunted "the dead zone" once uppon a time. I think that if there is a problem its with turbulent air coming from the stall zone and falling on the rear wing, decreasing efficency from the rear wing, thus effectivly giving up valuable percentage points of downforce from the rear wing, and thus making their diffuser less stable from above, thus making the rear end a little less stable.

Its the front aero map that governs the rest of the cars efficency and downforce levels, and they may well have the best front aero map for pure downforce, but the way it affects the air that travels behind it could be where the fault lies, so they may have to compromise on eht front aero a little to get what they want from the rear areo map. The car that altered its front end aero the most last year was Force India, and with tremendous results at Spa and Monza, and led them to have a great base to build on for their new VJM/03 that was launched yesterday.

Im trying to think lateraly here, as it could be the simple thing that is affecting the major thing.

If they want to measure air flow as you say, isn't it better to use a different sensor displacement? One that has longitudinal and vertical sensors?

That configuration leads me to think that they are measuring the flow into and around the sidepods, cheching for turbulences created by the nose, just like the opening in front of the driver in the previous test was. If you notice carefully, the rig has at least one motor to move the structure up and down.

I'm sorry I'm not including a picture at the moment, I'll try to do it later - if it still makes sense.

you beat me to it, i was looking at how wide that thing is.

[tarzoon]

I found this pic somewhere in this thread. Isn't the air supposed to be channeled to the diffuser to maximise downforce? It looks quite messed up back there, and maybe they are trying to correct that with that sensor by measuring the air flow around the cockpit and sidepods.

I don't know how much of this green stuff is meant to go onto the rear wing, but there isn't much there. ESPImperium can be right in his theory also

[ringo]

That bar could be making measurement for when the wheel changes position relative to the chassis. It creates eddies, waves of high and low pressure and some Vortex shedding. This flow fluctuations can cause vibration, and also affect the performance of the floor momentarily.
For example going through a chicane, the wheels turn both ways in a short time, this creates eddies that flow downstream to the side-pods and floor.
Mclaren my be investigation these things to improve their simulations as they say. It can't have anything to do with the car under peforrming as it is.

a little example here:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AJgEa2dbJU[/youtube]

[PlatinumZealot]

I think they are just doing a "planar plot" of the air flow in that specific area. The arm moves up and down like a scanner. I think they can use this as input into CFD to test the front wing. I don't know how you would put this into a wind tunnel though? anybody knows? How can you translate data from the track such as this into a wind tunnel?

[Shaddock]

Last year was a shake up call for McLaren. They built their car in the same way as previous years and it was slow and didn't deliver what it promised on the drawing board/CFD & windtunnel.

As well as design meetings going on late into the night, exploring new diffuser and wing concepts that turned up at every other race, there would be other meetings headed by the programme manager in trying to discover what went wrong in the design process.

They have obviously changed the way the design and test their cars to avoid a situation similar to last years.

[pete555]

The more they keep using these devices the more likely it is that something is wrong. If the figures add up then they add up. You want as much clear air running as possible during testing so you can concentrate on seeing just how fast your car can go under varous conditions.

You have to know WHY your fast, or you end up like Brawn last season, Scratching your arse in the pits because your a second off the pace in every other race after the first third of the season.

[newbie]

some of the explanations here for that wake array have been simply rediculous. thanks for the laughs!!!

As some have suggested, it is a pitot array for measuring the front wheel wake...possibly THE most important characteristic of an F1 car as it's position and behavior has a knock-on effect on floor and diffuser performance.