F1 in Schools Help - basizeland's project

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
flameracing
flameracing
0
Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 07:12

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Hi Guys,
nice theory u have of soaking the balsa with glue but from the pictures i recognised the front parts were breaking, theres a legal solution.

1)A thin layer of carbon fibre around your car

2)A thin layer of kevlar(bullet proof material) around yor car

or

3)Design the front out of plastic like other teams have done before (eclipse racing)

I hope it can help
It will laso get you bonus points for collaboration

Matthew
i like salty peanuts

basizeland
basizeland
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 09:38

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Flynnfrog I changed the parts on the car that you suggested I hope its what you meant

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Im not sure whether i should add anything behind the front wheels and in front of the rear wheels like whats in front of the front wheels. I got bored the other day and was messing around and got this idea it looks really bulky but other then that do you reckon it will be aerodynamically better

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Mep once I have the car the way we think is best I will do a test with and with out the venturi channel to confirm which is best.

Flameracing we are currently running a plastic front wing but that wasn't the part that was breaking it was the corner of the wheel hole but we used softer towels in testing and the car never broke again so I am thinking of coating the car in a glue called dope which will strengthen it to be sure that it wont break again and it also seals the wood so it is easier to paint.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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I'm still not sure I would be tapering the the rear of the sidepods in. You are changing direction to quickly and will cause the air to separate.

fairing the wheels as you have done should help clean up the air around the wheels.

basizeland
basizeland
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 09:38

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Hi Flynnfrog I took the taper off the section behind the rear wheels if its what you meant should I do the same to the front wing.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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sorry I wasnt very clear. turn that 90 degrees

I would have them like you did earlier but instead of tapering in two dimensions I would only do it in one.

That way you will have a decent airfoil shape front to rear.

how are you doing on weight?

basizeland
basizeland
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 09:38

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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I have made a few changes to the car like having a RP front wing to comply with the rules, sorry Flynfrog but I am still unsure of what you meant by turning it 90 degrees so I did what I thought you meant as it only took me a couple of seconds.

I have designed a piece to slide into the CO2 canister housing that directs the airflow past the CO2 canister and it is also the support for the rear wing which I had to do to comply with the rules. Does it look like it will be an improvement of not having it and will it make much of a difference. I just made the rear wing a rectangle for now if you guys think that I should make it back to the ellipsis shape I will.

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So what to you guys think because I am really liking this design because it looks really simple but effective.

Belatti
Belatti
33
Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
Location: Argentina

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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bas, check your pm inbox

Does it has to have a rear wing?
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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not what I had in mind but I like it. I would try comparing CFD to the original race car.

for the wing the cross section should be an air foil if you can. its small enough that it really doesn't matter.

basizeland
basizeland
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 09:38

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Belatti the car has to have a rear wing as it states this in the rules so this rear wing is as small as it can be.

Flynfrog I will try and test this car and the original race car in the CFD package that I have available to me because Richard from symscape said that he only has the time to do one more simulation so I want to wait until I have the final design and then get him to do it and I can always make small changes after that.

flameracing
flameracing
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Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 07:12

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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i like it but it looks a bit chunky if you know what i mean
i like salty peanuts

basizeland
basizeland
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 09:38

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Flameracing I know what you mean but it is simplified from our state final car which i think will be better and we will still be able to keep it at the minimum weight so that shouldn't be a problem.

I tried to do a CFD test on both the new car today and the car that I sent to Richard from Symscape to compare the difference butt I dont think that the results converged properly because it said that new car's coeffiecent of drag was 2.14 and the old car was 4.34. I dont think that there should be this much difference between the two, I have got the pictures so you guys can see for yourself these are all velocity because the pressure wasnt working correctly.

Old Car
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New Car
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flameracing
flameracing
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Joined: 27 Oct 2009, 07:12

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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another idea :idea:

Your back wing is fine but you might want to shape it so its directing the wind away from the co2 cylinder:

So theres less drag

And you get the most out of the cylinder

it probably wouldnt improve it much but its only a suggestion.


Matt
i like salty peanuts

Mystery Steve
Mystery Steve
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Joined: 25 Sep 2009, 07:04
Location: Cincinnati, OH, USA

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Personally, I don't see the rear wing affecting your thrust. Thrust is a product of the propellant mass flow and the velocity of the flow out of the cylinder, which isn't necessarily affected by the wing.

Although, I do have another somewhat "out there" idea for you... you wouldn't happen to have access to a Schlieren Imaging setup would you? I do propose this as a half-serious suggestion. If you have a local university that has an aero department, they probably already have one set up. If you can network with them, they may let you come in one afternoon (if you catch them at the right time of the year, they may not be terribly busy and they're like us... they enjoy seeing projects like this). It's worth a shot, and it is a really interesting process and you would learn a lot. Not to mention it's a very powerful tool for visualizing flow fields, like is shown in the video I linked. If you were able to get it done before you finalized the design, it would be really nice to see what the flow field resulting from the CO2 cylinders on their own looks like. That way you could potentially make a better assessment for how to design the rear end.

Even if you aren't able to find a place before the final design, it would be interesting to test it after the fact just to see how effective your design is. At the very least, if you're considering going to school for this it would be a good way to research schools.

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flynfrog
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006, 22:31

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Mystery Steve wrote:Personally, I don't see the rear wing affecting your thrust. Thrust is a product of the propellant mass flow and the velocity of the flow out of the cylinder, which isn't necessarily affected by the wing.

Although, I do have another somewhat "out there" idea for you... you wouldn't happen to have access to a Schlieren Imaging setup would you? I do propose this as a half-serious suggestion. If you have a local university that has an aero department, they probably already have one set up. If you can network with them, they may let you come in one afternoon (if you catch them at the right time of the year, they may not be terribly busy and they're like us... they enjoy seeing projects like this). It's worth a shot, and it is a really interesting process and you would learn a lot. Not to mention it's a very powerful tool for visualizing flow fields, like is shown in the video I linked. If you were able to get it done before you finalized the design, it would be really nice to see what the flow field resulting from the CO2 cylinders on their own looks like. That way you could potentially make a better assessment for how to design the rear end.

Even if you aren't able to find a place before the final design, it would be interesting to test it after the fact just to see how effective your design is. At the very least, if you're considering going to school for this it would be a good way to research schools.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4445&hilit=Schlieren

we had a thread on this many moons ago.

Basizeland:

you might try tapering the end of the side pods to the center line of the side pods from a side view. I think are getting to much separation. I would only taper them on one direction not two. There is not enough length there you are asking the air to move to quickly.

basizeland
basizeland
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Joined: 23 Sep 2009, 09:38

Re: F1 in Schools Help

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Mystery Steve you reminded me of the aussie team that one the world championship in 2006, they got access to schlieren imaging and I managed to find a video of it so I have uploaded it and the link is below. I will still try and get access to it myself but this will do for now.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/smgcxv