Nationalism in F1

[Richard]

Quiet a few threads have recently strayed into nationalism territory.

To my mind, the flag waving aspect of F1 is fun, but a distraction. The flag flown often bears no relation to the team behind the car, it only shows the registered country of the team owner.

So you have Japanese flags for Honda (made in UK) and Toyota (made in Germany). German flags for Mercedes (made in UK). The all conquering Ferrari team was run by Brawn (UK), Todt (Fr), Schumacher (Germany).

This year we have Lotus built in Britain under a Malaysian flag, Campos built in Italy under a Spanish flag, and an "all American" team run by Windsor (UK/Aus), with an Argentine driver, and from the recent vidoes it appears that at least half the staff are from the UK.

Lets face it F1 is mercenary, money buys the best talent, and whichever flag you want. So why get our knickers in a twist about it?

ps - Anyone see Bob Varsha's comment about a USF1 chap who'd studied in the UK "did they make fun of your accent" - doh!

[horse]

I thought A1GP was for nationalist motor sport fans? I think the success of that series says a lot.

Nationalism and sport are often interconnected, however, and is more important in some sports than others. The issue of foreign players in club football teams is still hotly debated. Still, ask a Manchester United fan if he would rather have Torres or Crouch, I think we all know the answer (even forgetting Crouch is an ex Scouser).

I personally think F1 has a great balance of nationalism and internationalism. I was pleased to see Brawn win last year as a UK national, but I was routing for Rubens as much as Jenson. On the other side I don't like the new German only attitude of Mercedes. I don't think that is in the spirit of the sport.

[Mr Alcatraz]

I'll take the bait RL
I think it's appropriate as I seem to be a
catalyst on this matter.
Great Britain deservingly should be proud that they
are the center of the F1 Universe (no Copernican Principal here).
I only get my hammocks in a bunch when some of the patriots
flaunt it. When I make references to the Anglo-mafia it is not meant with malice.
It's just been my experience that any decent F1 forum has almost all threads
argued (and I'm talking about driver/team assesment,societal aspects, and other poignant ones)
dominated from a British perspective.
Having said that I think National Identity is a good and honest form of advertisement (meaning it ads interest) as opposed to the kind of shallow degrading, things that Bernie and others pimp off.
I think it is a mute point that the teams may not be entirely representative of the nationalities’ of its team’s members.

[Giblet]

Canada was huge into F1, for one year. When JV returned home with the WDC trophy, it was a big deal. Now I can't even find it on YouTube

Then Villeneuve slowed down, and everyone forgot about F1.

[xpensive]

Canada was huge into F1, for one year. When JV returned home with the WDC trophy, it was a big deal. Now I can't even find it on YouTube

Then Villeneuve slowed down, and everyone forgot about F1.

Pretty much the same thing in Sweden, big in the 70s with Ronnie Peterson, Reine Wisell and later Gunnar Nilsson.
Up again in the 80s with Stefan Johansson, but quiet since, though the races are broadcast on a commercial channel.

I think these things goes with the drivers more than anything else, why USF1 is all the more difficult to understand.

[Giblet]

Even in the Olympics, where Canada is going apeshit right now, as we won our 1st gold on Canadian soil, people don't always realize that the gold medal is a personal goal for the athlete, the representation for the country is a great secondary thing, but it is secondary.

I am kind of choked at the reaction of my fellow Canadians at the Mogul event, not cheering for the Australian who got silver. I don't know the story behind it, but I am a bit ashamed at the lack of sportsmanship, being silent when his name was announced.

[Shrek]

I'm starting to think this is human nature, to root for your home country and you want everybody else to do poorly or not as good as your countrymen.

[horse]

I am kind of choked at the reaction of my fellow Canadians at the Mogul event, not cheering for the Australian who got silver. I don't know the story behind it, but I am a bit ashamed at the lack of sportsmanship, being silent when his name was announced.

Off topic, Giblet, but the British press is stuffed full of Canada gone nasty stories about the Olympics. I think the lack of a historic "home soil" gold medal has driven the organisers insane and they've lost sight of what the Olympics is about. Done a China, you might say.

[ESPImperium]

I must admit, i support the British drivers, and being a Scot i did support DC more than day any otf the other Brit drivers, i am gonna do the same for Di Resta as well. I also support Dario in IRL/Champ Car as well, even tho he supports the other football team in the city that i support, the one that is 10 points behind my team at current in the SPL. I supported Brawn GP last year by buying a T Shirt.

I do support Mercedes as their roots are the old Tyrell team, also i support Red Bull as the roots of that team are the old Stewart GP team as well.

However, i like the small guys to do well, hence why i like STR, they were the old Minardi. Who didnt have a soft spot for those guys??? I sometimes dont support my nations drivers, Hamilton is one i dislike just for the fact he didnt earn his seat in F in my opinion by having a year or two in a slower car, and for his general attitude.

The thing is i have also changed my mind about drivers before, most recently with Michael Schumacher, used to hate him, but since 2006 have missed him and now appreciate him and what he says more. Another driver i have changed on is Raikkonen, used to not exactly like or hate him, but now love him and his attitude to racing and the media that is "i dont care, im having a ice cream and oh and he is a nice king".

The jury at the moment is out with Jenson, im gonna see how he reacts to McLaren, and how they react to him, I see tears personally.

Generally, i support the teams that are based in the UK and most of the UK tallent, but also support a couple of other non UK based teams and drivers as well.

Maybes im just ficle.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Even in the Olympics, where Canada is going apeshit right now, as we won our 1st gold on Canadian soil, people don't always realize that the gold medal is a personal goal for the athlete, the representation for the country is a great secondary thing, but it is secondary.

I am kind of choked at the reaction of my fellow Canadians at the Mogul event, not cheering for the Australian who got silver. I don't know the story behind it, but I am a bit ashamed at the lack of sportsmanship, being silent when his name was announced.

From what I can figure the gold medal went to a Canadien. Is there a distinction of who it was that dis'ed the Ausie, or is it Canadians as well as Canadiens?

[manchild]

If it was up to me, I'd completely ban national stuff from F1 (flags, anthems, etc.) and leave it on team insignia, logos, colors. In many cases, if not in all, almost every country is officially doing something very bad and unjust as we speak, regardless if it is to its own citizens or to citizens of some other country. I see countries only as fishy establishments who cover up their dirty work behind patriotism, and as Samuel Johnson wrote "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel".

[Giblet]

Even in the Olympics, where Canada is going apeshit right now, as we won our 1st gold on Canadian soil, people don't always realize that the gold medal is a personal goal for the athlete, the representation for the country is a great secondary thing, but it is secondary.

I am kind of choked at the reaction of my fellow Canadians at the Mogul event, not cheering for the Australian who got silver. I don't know the story behind it, but I am a bit ashamed at the lack of sportsmanship, being silent when his name was announced.

From what I can figure the gold medal went to a Canadien. Is there a distinction of who it was that dis'ed the Ausie, or is it Canadians as well as Canadiens?

Yeah off topic a bit here, but it is about nationalism and sports, and mostly is related, but as a Canadian who voted NO, there is no distinction for me between French and English Canadians.

Most of the people watching in Whistler are not Quebecois, they are BC folks.

As for the China comparison, we have not been entering men as women in events, and it's about time our gov supported athletes for the Olympics. It took a long time to get over the Ben Johnson fiasco(s).

I helped build Athletes Village and The Speed Skating oval, and the spirit was much better before the games started.

Closer to topic, of course Fernando was overjoyed shooting confetti from his hands in Spain, but when he won his WDC, it was all about him. The national pride doesn't kick in until the anthem goes. It's like that for every driver. I imagine Schumi was happier when Cora beamed with pride than when Germany did.

[Pup]

On the surface, there's no harm. But I think there can be unintended consequences, like the damage the USF1 fiasco could have on F1 in America since it is being touted as a 'national' effort.

I do think that it's misguided when used as a marketing ploy. Mercedes, in particular, are treading a thin line there. What I mean is that all of their facilities are British, and if they go too far with their whole überpfeil thing, they can end up with a lot of alienated team members. If nothing else, it will be an effective recruiting tool for their competitors; i.e., you know there will be some sort of 'do you really want to be working for the german effort' on some level.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Even in the Olympics, where Canada is going apeshit right now, as we won our 1st gold on Canadian soil, people don't always realize that the gold medal is a personal goal for the athlete, the representation for the country is a great secondary thing, but it is secondary.

I am kind of choked at the reaction of my fellow Canadians at the Mogul event, not cheering for the Australian who got silver. I don't know the story behind it, but I am a bit ashamed at the lack of sportsmanship, being silent when his name was announced.

From what I can figure the gold medal went to a Canadien. Is there a distinction of who it was that dis'ed the Ausie, or is it Canadians as well as Canadiens?

Yeah off topic a bit here, but it is about nationalism and sports, and mostly is related, but as a Canadian who voted NO, there is no distinction for me between French and English Canadians.

Most of the people watching in Whistler are not Quebecois, they are BC folks.

As for the China comparison, we have not been entering men as women in events, and it's about time our gov supported athletes for the Olympics. It took a long time to get over the Ben Johnson fiasco(s).

I helped build Athletes Village and The Speed Skating oval, and the spirit was much better before the games started.

Closer to topic, of course Fernando was overjoyed shooting confetti from his hands in Spain, but when he won his WDC, it was all about him. The national pride doesn't kick in until the anthem goes. It's like that for every driver. I imagine Schumi was happier when Cora beamed with pride than when Germany did.

Thanks for such a concise and detailed answer!
I agree with a previous poster that as long as the team has a marque that gains a following, and tradition, it should suffice. I agree nationalities would be counterproductive and useless. In the real world Spain only had a motorcycle tradition. Fred brought a lot of compatriots to the races. I think the situation will not be resolved, or changed in any meaningful way in my lifetime.
One more thing Mike may have been only about his team Cora and others with interpersonal relationships. But I can't get past Rubens with his hand over his heart crying his eyes out, and drying them with a Brazilian flag as his Anthem was playing
That was sincere!

[3KGT]

I think nationalism is inherent in F1, as it is the pinnacle of motor sport and is a truly world championship. I personally feel that the nationalistic aspect of the sport brings depth and meaning to the participants' involvement and achievements. I like the fact that Alonso (for example) is out there battling it out with the whole of Spain behind him. And ask yourself if Monza would be the same without the Italian fans going nuts at the sight of the Ferraris roaring past? I don't know if anyone can say it would be, or would argue that those fans aren't motivated, at least in part, by nationalism.