USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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I am indeed angry with FIA and their selection process .These guys must be complete amateurs as they had workable business plans laid out in front of them to just compare what is real and what is fiction:

Stefan GP .rejected but is ready so their plan worked in spite off being rejected!
Virgin -Manor .accepted (maybe as a fellow of Mr.Mosley?),but they have delivered.
Litespeed -rejected but now as Lotus shows a proper plan set into reality,so they got the nod on the second try at least.
Prodrive -nobody would argue that they know how to do this.

but they chose Campos and USF1 and obviously both are fighting beyond their weight
and both seem to struggle on finance mainly.unbelievable.
would something as obvious as a missing budget get unnoticed with these guys,this
cannot be serious ...

segedunum
segedunum
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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WhiteBlue wrote:I do not agree with your view there. Until Xmas USF1 seem to have made reasonable technical progress.
Well, I don't agree with that, no one sensible would around here and by no stretch can you call the evidence that we have seen as reasonable technical progress. Before Christmas we were shown pictures of part of a black composite, probably mock-up, tub and after Christmas we were shown pictures of the same totally incomplete tub being manhandled by various people in various positions. No suspension, no rear crash structure, no rear body work, no wings, no engine fitting or even a mock-up engine. The fact that they didn't even secure an engine supply up-front, months in advance, certainly leads me to believe that this was a sham all along. Compared to what's required and what we saw of other teams then no one in their right mind could call that progress.
Then rumors of financial trouble fanned by Bernie Ecclestone kept being repeated. That is a sure fire way to ruin a business that may be under financed or in liquidity problems.
You can spin your wheels as much as you want on that one, but I'm afraid it is clear USF1, Peter and Ken were the prime architects of their own downfall. If they had produced a car, and had solid evidence that they were making progress as other teams minus Campos were doing, then none of the speculation and doubt would ever have happened. It's a stupid lame-assed excuse, inconsistent with the facts. Bernie Ecclestone never said anything about USF1 for over a year (yes, they've had that long), and only cast doubt over the past few months whe it became clear that progress was not forthcoming. God knows how the FIA selected this farse.
As previously said it would have been a question of spending the same kind of money he is looking at now to get the team functional.
As previously said umpteen times, you need the right people and a decent level of confidence that things will improve should you plough in more money. Chad Hurley wasn't confident that he had the right people or that things would improve, and so ploughing in more money was pointless. At least Campos have a chassis. There is no evidence that USF1 ever will.
If you want to do that you know that you are not getting it under 30 mil $. Hurley should decide what he wants. Spend 5 or 10 mil seed money or do a proper campaign.
No one with half a brain will plough in tens of millions and say "Get on with it", and you are certificable if you do that with Peter and especially Ken Anderson's track record. That's bone-headed. Chad put in close to $1 million with the promise of another million should reasonable progress be made, and presumably much more as the team progressed. The latter wasn't achieved so the former wasn't forthcoming. Clear?

I just wonder what the hell Peter and Ken were actually doing in the year or more before all of this came to light. There should have been milestones and incremental ramping of the funding at various intervals along the way.

Giblet
Giblet
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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Sham:

1. Something false or empty that is purported to be genuine; a spurious imitation.
2. The quality of deceitfulness; empty pretense.
3. One who assumes a false character; an impostor: "He a man! Hell! He was a hollow sham!" (Joseph Conrad).
4. A decorative cover made to simulate an article of household linen and used over or in place of it: a pillow sham.

I don't think that this was planned to be a scam, which is what a sham is. Damage to everyones career, not what was intended.

I think their intentions were honest, and then they got caught on the back foot, and things have spiraled into respite.

Too bad, but I don't see ill intentions, just horrible management.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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jddh1
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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segedunum wrote:No one with half a brain will plough in tens of millions and say "Get on with it", and you are certificable if you do that with Peter and especially Ken Anderson's track record. That's bone-headed. Chad put in close to $1 million with the promise of another million should reasonable progress be made, and presumably much more as the team progressed. The latter wasn't achieved so the former wasn't forthcoming. Clear?
So they were supposed to start building a F1 car with 2 million dollars? And I thought the 40 million Mad-Max-Cap was insanity.

Look, I think they just didn't find the money needed. I'm sure the boys at the shop can do the job and it's a shame they had to give up on their, what could be, dream job. Yes, PW blew it by not finding the financial support needed, but I'm not sure it's because of lack of technical know-how. Therefore, I think that having Chad Hurley as a top investor made PW think he'd be able to find other people. Maybe he relaxed or simply was not up to the job of selling his vision. (I think the latter is true.) Either way, it's a failure.

I really wanted this to work. I still do, so I hope someone sees the opportunity here and swoops in to buy the design ideas and take the entire year to do the job properly, something PW could not do. They really needed to sell the idea of the global sponsorship opportunity to the American companies similar to what's in F1 already. Research in Motion (Blackberry) is a good one. Get Tesla to do your KERS and so on. Obviously Coca Cola would be my main target for the global appeal. Budwiser would be good too. Tell Budwiser it's cheaper for them to give 10 mill to USF1 then spend 50 mill (at least) on the Super Bowl.

Talk to Matlab, Worfram (Mathematica) and similar companies. Have them give some cash, free licences and support for your design and simulation ideas. I think they might consider it if you tell them their logo will appear on the front wing end plate around the world.

Go after Boeing, CAT (yes, the not-only construction equipment company); get FORD again to do the engine. (Tell them to build one that outlasts all current F1 cars, even if its slower. You need to run all year, not necessarily run faster right away. So instead of using 8 engines per car, target using 2 per car.) It's not like Ford forgot how to build an engine.

There's more companies that don't come to mind right now. The point is that PW wasted time bragging in front of the media and not enough time in meetings with company boards, CEOs, CFOs and generally rich people. Go after Oracle's Ellison. He loves sailing but he could be compelled to pour money into an F1 outfit. Don't bother with Chad Hurley, but go after Mark Cuban and tell him to invest in your team rather than the Chicago Cubs. Hey, you have to try. Wouldn't you want Cuban in F1? I'd love to see him involved.

/endrant
Last edited by jddh1 on 18 Feb 2010, 17:20, edited 2 times in total.

countersteer
countersteer
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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Giblet wrote:Too bad, but I don't see ill intentions, just horrible management.
I agree Giblet... Even if they fall flat on their collective faces and humiliate themselves in public, at least they gave it a shot. Better than spending time on an international tech forum criticizing others from a laptop.

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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countersteer wrote:
Giblet wrote:Too bad, but I don't see ill intentions, just horrible management.
I agree Giblet... Even if they fall flat on their collective faces and humiliate themselves in public, at least they gave it a shot. Better than spending time on an international tech forum criticizing others from a laptop.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
true so true ,I have witnessed lesser projects go down the drain and I have seen others get the corner in the last moment and win.

Saribro
Saribro
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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countersteer wrote:at least they gave it a shot. Better than spending time on an international tech forum criticizing others from a laptop.
Ah yes, the age old rationalisation for failure, followed by the obligatory, pre-emptive ad hominem.
Lovely, very nice...

Pup
Pup
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Joined: 08 May 2008, 17:45

Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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marcush. wrote:Stefan GP .rejected but is ready so their plan worked in spite off being rejected!
Virgin -Manor .accepted (maybe as a fellow of Mr.Mosley?),but they have delivered.
Litespeed -rejected but now as Lotus shows a proper plan set into reality,so they got the nod on the second try at least.
Prodrive -nobody would argue that they know how to do this.
You forgot about Epsilon...
who
seem
to
be
fairly
well
funded.

(and someone called Lola, who I think has been around racing for a bit, too.)
Last edited by Pup on 18 Feb 2010, 17:10, edited 1 time in total.

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jddh1
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Location: New York City

Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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countersteer wrote:
Giblet wrote:Too bad, but I don't see ill intentions, just horrible management.
I agree Giblet... Even if they fall flat on their collective faces and humiliate themselves in public, at least they gave it a shot. Better than spending time on an international tech forum criticizing others from a laptop.
I agree with Giblet too, but I slightly disagree with you.
There was no reason for one to fail building a team in the US. However, they went about it all wrong and that's why we are criticizing them from our 'puters.
PW should have given up on his Speed TV job when he announced his intentions instead of trying to still work the grid. I think that took away from his time. We are criticizing that and other mindless claims him and KA threw our way, not the effort by the team and guys at the shop.

Richard
Richard
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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The Lopex site is back up and running with a very cryptic message:
http://www.pechitolopez.com.ar/nota_en.php?idn=92 wrote: Taking into account the numerous information about Jose Maria´s participation in Formula 1 2010 championship, we would like to inform that yesterday, Jose Maria Lopez Sr, toghether with Felipe McGough and Victor Rosso, visited USF1 headquarters in Charlotte, US, to be in contact with the Team´s Directors.

In such meeting, several subjects were covered, in order to have a deep knowledge of the situation of the new team, which is under the responsibility of Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson.
Last night, after the meeting, with a clear understanding of the team´s current situation, the group flew to London, England.

Once in London, arrangements were made to have different meetings; one of them with the managers of the FOM (Formula One Management) whose president is Bernie Ecclestone. The result of the meeting has been positive. They expect to have a similar schedule as today for tomorrow (Thursday).

López Sr., Mc Gough y Rosso are planning to return to our country next weekend.

Richard
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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Alexpcenteno wrote: In fact I went to the factory in january and I've saw a lot of movement of cars and people, but as I went there for the second time last week there was not even some at the front desk to receive visitors...
Is that just from looking in from the street, or did you get in on either occasion?

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WhiteBlue
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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jddh1 wrote:
segedunum wrote:No one with half a brain will plough in tens of millions and say "Get on with it", and you are certificable if you do that with Peter and especially Ken Anderson's track record. That's bone-headed. Chad put in close to $1 million with the promise of another million should reasonable progress be made, and presumably much more as the team progressed. The latter wasn't achieved so the former wasn't forthcoming. Clear?
So they were supposed to start building a F1 car with 2 million dollars? And I thought the 40 million Mad-Max-Cap was insanity.

Look, I think they just didn't find the money needed. I'm sure the boys at the shop can do the job and it's a shame they had to give up on their, what could be, dream job. Yes, PW blew it by not finding the financial support needed, but I'm not sure it's because of lack of technical know-how. Therefore, I think that having Chad Hurley as a top investor made PW think he'd be able to find other people. Maybe he relaxed or simply was not up to the job of selling his vision. (I think the latter is true.) Either way, it's a failure.
Totally agree with that. Something about Hurley stinks.

1. He either is a full active share holder who is involved with the business plan in which case it was seriously up to him to help Windsor get other sponsors or put up finance to reach the grid.

2. The other way is being a silent minoity share holder with no management role whatsoever. If the venture collapses the money is simply gone and you write the investment off.

My impression from the previous press releases was that case one applied. But this isn't consistent with the reported comments by Hurley that it is all a Peter and Ken show (crunch time remark).

Hurley obviously wants to play an active role as an investor and team owner in F1 or he would not continue to look for ways to use the USF1 ticket. To me that suggests he really was in it in an active way but deserted the game in the middle.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

marcush.
marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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Pup wrote:
marcush. wrote:Stefan GP .rejected but is ready so their plan worked in spite off being rejected!
Virgin -Manor .accepted (maybe as a fellow of Mr.Mosley?),but they have delivered.
Litespeed -rejected but now as Lotus shows a proper plan set into reality,so they got the nod on the second try at least.
Prodrive -nobody would argue that they know how to do this.
You forgot about Epsilon...
who
seem
to
be
fairly
well
funded.

(and someone called Lola, who I think has been around racing for a bit, too.)
fair enough ...the epsilon premises should make PW and KA sink into the ground...
lola I left out on purpose considering their last two attempts to go into F1.
I guess it is time to put the nomex firesuit back into the cabinet and call it a day with toasters and bashing .

Richard
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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The USF1 twitter now says:
http://twitter.com/USF1Team wrote:# The US F1 Team web server is down and is being repaired as this is written. We are not gone, as many have reported. More news soon. 34 minutes ago from web

segedunum
segedunum
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Re: USF1 -- F1's All-American Challenger

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jddh1 wrote:So they were supposed to start building a F1 car with 2 million dollars? And I thought the 40 million Mad-Max-Cap was insanity.
No......... They got some initial funding which Peter and Ken would have negotiated, it would have been made clear to Peter and Ken how much and the schedule and conditions and it was then up to Peter and Ken to work out how much they needed to achieve their initial goals, set up a factory and offices and get things like an engine supply. They then either talked to Chad about a release of more funds for things like engines, with suitable progress behind them, or find more sponsors - which they had well over a year to plan and months to actually do once they had a 2010 entry. This hasn't all just blown up in the last couple of months. It's called planning.

Like I said, the fact that they hadn't worked out that they needed an engine supply and got the required funding months in advance just leads me to believe this was a complete scam. If you can't secure engines, what's the point? The fact that they couldn't achieve those goals and put in some adequate planning for them points to a complete lack of technical expertise because they couldn't identify what they actually needed to do. Even when all of this was plainly going on behind the scenes they then pretended everything was fine makes me think even more that it was a scam.