Active suspention

[wiley]

Does anybody have some good pic of the active suspention systems used by the teams before the ban??

Which teams had it besides: Mclaren, Williams, Lotus, Bennetton(?)

[manchild]

I think that no one except Williams had it in 1992.
Here is a great article...
http://www.scarbsf1.com/williams_active ... YSTEMS.htm

No better pics than these (from model car)
http://gpma.org/Archive/psmith.html

[DaveKillens]

manchild, excellent article in scarbs. I printed it out and have read it, very interesting application of hydraulics. It appears to be lifted from the original patent, and gives a lot of insight, especially in what is not mentioned (like what exactly the rear suspension geometry is. The patent only mentions a "swing axle", and the diagram indicated a live axle, whereas the front is depicted as two independant wishbone suspensions.)
The Williams active suspension is designed to maintain an optimum height above the road surface, that's how vital aero is. Roll control is by cross linking left front with right rear, etc. Then the rear suspension actuators control roll, with the front end doing what the rear dictates. Very interesting stuff. I wonder how much of that still lives in today's current f1 cars.

[manchild]

... I wonder how much of that still lives in today's current f1 cars.

Thanks Dave (thank to Scarbs)

None of it as much as I know . I think that best thing that followed and got banned quickly was dampers with electrical actuation – they were filled with fluid that changes viscosity depending on whether electric current flows trough liquid or not (possibly dependable on voltage, power and maybe polarity).

[scarbs]

While the actual suspension mechanics (well hydraulics..) of active have gone, the knowledge the teams gathered during that period on what they want suspension to do to control the aero lives on.

That said, the electro hydraulic systems are still on the cars but managing the gearbox, diff throttle fuel flap etc, that technology transfer directly.

Teams now run much more complex spring damper set ups, all trying to mimic some of the effects of active.

Of course some things the suspension did cannot be replicated such as jacking the rear down at speed to reduce drag or Lotus pitstop trick of stopping the car and raising the wheels instead of using jacks..!

Scarbs...

[wiley]

Damon Hill said in his book that one of his favorite times in a F1 car was when he tested full active cars for Williams. Anti-locks, traction and launch control, active suspention, big qualifying tires [tyres] 3.5 liter engine.

The active cars of the early ninties were in my opinion the last technically interesting cars in f1. Senna's crash the year after the ban didn't help either. And it was the track that was unsafe!

The cars can't get any more interesting because the sport costs too much money and the cars are getting too fast for the tracks.

F1 is dying and the FIA isn't helping. They need to find a way to make the sport more interesting. I think I'm going to watch more sportscar racing, at least I can tell the cars apart!

[manchild]

That is exactly why I blame FIA for tragedies in 1994. In 1993 there were as wiley wrote "anti-locks, traction and launch control, active suspention, big qualifying tires.." and no serious accidents.

Than during winter pause FIA decided to dramatically change technical regulations in short notice without consideration for safety and 1994 occurred – two deaths, one coma and other serious crashes. But the FIA bosses were happy because there was no high tech in F1 anymore…

[scarbs]

Manchild,
I think we have discussed this before I do not agree the FIA were responsible for the tragedies, it is down to the teams to make sure their car runs in a safe operatign condition.

Sennas accident was in part caused by low ride height, but the actual impact and reason for his death would have been the same even with Active.

Ratzenberger was killed from front wing damage and the impact killed him, Active controls woudl have had no bearing on this

Equally wendlingers crash and his subsequent coma were not active related.

[Scuderia_Russ]

And anyway, the telemetry showed that Wendlinger braked about 15 metres later when he crashed than he had done on his previous lap.

[DaveKillens]

I hope we're not going to go down that very well-used road. This is a topic that has worn out it's welcome.

[manchild]

Don’t worry I'm not starting it again. My comment was only about absurdity of FIA technology banning decision that was based on “unsafe” cars in 1993 season and what followed after they made them “safe” for 1994 season.

Tragedies and incidents are not just accidental and unrelated with swift and sloppy changes of technical reg. My point is that tracks are the main problem when it matters safety – not the cars and that is why I don’t get why are millions invested in stronger chassis every year while fences remain unchanged or unprotected for decades.

I mean tracks are FIA’s problem too not just the cars and it seams that no one from FIA intends to force certain track owners to rearrange the tracks or loose license. If there was only 10% pressure on track owners as there was on chassis designers in a previous several decades now we’d have safe tracks too.

[manchild]

Finally! I made it today out of clip that wasn't working because it was Divx and I had no codec.

FW15c, nice closeup on front active suspension