Reducing the drag of a two element wing through stall

[Giblet]

Scarbs is far more well connected than most of us, and very rarely wrong. He gets his information from many other sources other than this one. He gets to speak directly to technical heads and designers of F1 teams. Using his hints might be well advised. I can guarantee, that a cockpit's air circulates very often, due to the open nature of the cars, and drivers don't need extra cooling. It's part of the job.

If it works like many say, using the knee hole, it is for when the car is at a high speed, to redirect air to the wing, right?

If this is the case, notice the knee hole is on the left side, the same one that has an idle leg when on straights or high speed bends.

I prefer to listen to the connected before the speculation.

[Raptor22]

the connected can also be fed BS.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Scarbs is far more well connected than most of us, and very rarely wrong. He gets his information from many other sources other than this one. He gets to speak directly to technical heads and designers of F1 teams. Using his hints might be well advised. I can guarantee, that a cockpit's air circulates very often, due to the open nature of the cars, and drivers don't need extra cooling. It's part of the job.

If it works like many say, using the knee hole, it is for when the car is at a high speed, to redirect air to the wing, right?

If this is the case, notice the knee hole is on the left side, the same one that has an idle leg when on straights or high speed bends.

I prefer to listen to the connected before the speculation.

Actually the air in the cockpit doesn't circulate as well as you think. It's easy for an armchair aerodynamist to say that because it would certainly appear that way. The hole in the end of the nosecone on most cars is there to help free up the airflow in the cockpit and there is no reason the 'snorkel' on the McLaren doesn't have a similar purpose. Also, it doesn't have to have anything to do with cooling, it could be related to airflow over and around the cockpit.

At the end of the day none of us can know anything, we can only provide a best guess.

[Giblet]

Easier, harder, whatever, it doesn't remain stagnant.

Why is it on the left hand side do you think? Why not the right or center? Why not a NACA duct then?

[cupidstunt]

Scarbs is far more well connected than most of us, and very rarely wrong. He gets his information from many other sources other than this one. He gets to speak directly to technical heads and designers of F1 teams. Using his hints might be well advised. I can guarantee, that a cockpit's air circulates very often, due to the open nature of the cars, and drivers don't need extra cooling. It's part of the job.

If it works like many say, using the knee hole, it is for when the car is at a high speed, to redirect air to the wing, right?

If this is the case, notice the knee hole is on the left side, the same one that has an idle leg when on straights or high speed bends.

I prefer to listen to the connected before the speculation.

Actually the air in the cockpit doesn't circulate as well as you think. It's easy for an armchair aerodynamist to say that because it would certainly appear that way. The hole in the end of the nosecone on most cars is there to help free up the airflow in the cockpit and there is no reason the 'snorkel' on the McLaren doesn't have a similar purpose. Also, it doesn't have to have anything to do with cooling, it could be related to airflow over and around the cockpit.

At the end of the day none of us can know anything, we can only provide a best guess.

Perhaps it increases pressure in the cockpit, and as a result reduces turbulence around the open cockpit??

Pure speculation, of course, but this sounds nice and simple to me.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Scarbs is far more well connected than most of us, and very rarely wrong. He gets his information from many other sources other than this one. He gets to speak directly to technical heads and designers of F1 teams. Using his hints might be well advised. I can guarantee, that a cockpit's air circulates very often, due to the open nature of the cars, and drivers don't need extra cooling. It's part of the job.

If it works like many say, using the knee hole, it is for when the car is at a high speed, to redirect air to the wing, right?

If this is the case, notice the knee hole is on the left side, the same one that has an idle leg when on straights or high speed bends.

I prefer to listen to the connected before the speculation.

Actually the air in the cockpit doesn't circulate as well as you think. It's easy for an armchair aerodynamist to say that because it would certainly appear that way. The hole in the end of the nosecone on most cars is there to help free up the airflow in the cockpit and there is no reason the 'snorkel' on the McLaren doesn't have a similar purpose. Also, it doesn't have to have anything to do with cooling, it could be related to airflow over and around the cockpit.

At the end of the day none of us can know anything, we can only provide a best guess.

Perhaps it increases pressure in the cockpit, and as a result reduces turbulence around the open cockpit??

Pure speculation, of course, but this sounds nice and simple to me.

Indeed. I had an idea that maybe the hole in the end of the nosecode wasn't enough due to the tight packing of components inside the nose not allowing airflow.

[cupidstunt]

Easier, harder, whatever, it doesn't remain stagnant.

Why is it on the left hand side do you think? Why not the right or center? Why not a NACA duct then?

Maybe there's no room for it on the right/centre, with whatever is under that bump being there. The bump is unlikely to be there for funsies. I'd imagine that the snorkel provides greater airflow than an equivalent sized NACA duct.

[biggles22]

Scarbs is far more well connected than most of us, and very rarely wrong. He gets his information from many other sources other than this one. He gets to speak directly to technical heads and designers of F1 teams. Using his hints might be well advised. I can guarantee, that a cockpit's air circulates very often, due to the open nature of the cars, and drivers don't need extra cooling. It's part of the job.

If it works like many say, using the knee hole, it is for when the car is at a high speed, to redirect air to the wing, right?

If this is the case, notice the knee hole is on the left side, the same one that has an idle leg when on straights or high speed bends.

I prefer to listen to the connected before the speculation.

Did you read the whole article?

Here's an extract... "One rumour around the internet suggests the inlet is linked by a duct to the shark fin\blown rear wing"

Granted Scarbs is very connected, but look at his sources in this case, the internet, he even calls it a rumour!

[Raptor22]

Easier, harder, whatever, it doesn't remain stagnant.

Why is it on the left hand side do you think? Why not the right or center? Why not a NACA duct then?

Because by ramming air into the cockpit you can avoid much of the turbulence in this area. Now there is a steady but slow flow through the cockpit that exits around the driver and is picked up by the faster moving flow going over and aroudn the cockpit.
Its position is not in the centre because it would blind side teh driver. It can be mounted left or right depending on whether the track runs clockwise or anticlock wise and therefore has more right hand bends or left hand bends.

they could have had to move the inlet for the driver cooling because their nose cone is very thin at the leading edge and the inlet could interfere with the undernose splitter by relieving the high pressure there.

[horse]

I'd imagine that the snorkel provides greater airflow than an equivalent sized NACA duct.

I thought it would have been worse for airflow. I was assuming they didn't have room for a NACA duct.

they could have had to move the inlet for the driver cooling because their nose cone is very thin at the leading edge and the inlet could interfere with the undernose splitter by relieving the high pressure there.

The nose cone hole is still there though.

[cupidstunt]

I'd imagine that the snorkel provides greater airflow than an equivalent sized NACA duct.

I thought it would have been worse for airflow. I was assuming they didn't have room for a NACA duct.

My source- the (sometimes) reliable wikipedia:

"This type of flush inlet generally cannot achieve the larger ram pressures and flow volumes of an external design"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA_duct

[horse]

I'd imagine that the snorkel provides greater airflow than an equivalent sized NACA duct.

I thought it would have been worse for airflow. I was assuming they didn't have room for a NACA duct.

My source- the (sometimes) reliable wikipedia:

"This type of flush inlet generally cannot achieve the larger ram pressures and flow volumes of an external design"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA_duct

I stand corrected.

[Raptor22]

[

they could have had to move the inlet for the driver cooling because their nose cone is very thin at the leading edge and the inlet could interfere with the undernose splitter by relieving the high pressure there.

The nose cone hole is still there though.

Right you are!

[autogyro]

All these problems to achieve a good BJ.
I never had this trouble when I was younger.

I do not think 'blowing' is to create a stall, it will be to improve flow.

[Giblet]

Easier, harder, whatever, it doesn't remain stagnant.

Why is it on the left hand side do you think? Why not the right or center? Why not a NACA duct then?

Because by ramming air into the cockpit you can avoid much of the turbulence in this area. Now there is a steady but slow flow through the cockpit that exits around the driver and is picked up by the faster moving flow going over and aroudn the cockpit.
Its position is not in the centre because it would blind side teh driver. It can be mounted left or right depending on whether the track runs clockwise or anticlock wise and therefore has more right hand bends or left hand bends.

they could have had to move the inlet for the driver cooling because their nose cone is very thin at the leading edge and the inlet could interfere with the undernose splitter by relieving the high pressure there.

Why would they do so much testing for driver cooling? They don't need the extra cooling, the drivers have been dealing with it for years, and are not going to suddenly decide to open up the cockpit with a snorkel. When they drivers are too hot, they sweat, take a drink, or roll up their glove cuffs.

This is being over-thought.

While they were screwing with the snorkel, they were also screwing with the size of the secondary upper inlet in the intake above the drivers head. hmmmmm.

We know the blown wing slot is fed by that engine cover shark fin, as mclaren said, "it's not how it looks, it's what it does." hmmm.

We also can figure, that if the effect of this system is to make the wing less effective at speed (not just stall it, which is an extreme end of what can be done), then that effect needs to be unused at low speeds. hmmmmmmmmm.

Since no mechanical device can be used, as that is active aero, then it must be manipulated by the driver doing something, that uses no cables, or hydraulics, or electronics. hmmmmmmmm.

Maybe cooling after all, but in a sport where they paint the logos on because stickers cause too much drag and turbulence, I doubt a tall ugly snorkel for cooling when they are other means to get the air in, there, to coddle a driver who needs no coddling.

I like saying hmmmmm though

Nobody can know for sure, but I look forward to possibly saying I told you so when the system comes to light.

I also look forward to saying "Oh well, you were right, live and learn" if I am wrong.