Increasing Down force through Rotation of wheels

Apex · Post 01 Dec 2005, 21:29

Yes, an oval would be the most simple to apply this idea to, however the closer the car is to the side wall the more the drag.

If you are suggesting that the drivers change the line to run around the outside of the corner i cant see there being enough volume flow rate to achieve any meaningfull sideways thrust (not to mention a much longer racing line)- Unless you stick a hovercraft type of thing (with skirt) on the side of the car! lol!

wowf1 · Post 01 Dec 2005, 23:14

When did anyone suggest that though? All that's being contemplated currently is the extra lateral force (acting toward the centre of the radius ie. corner) that variable vane wheels would generate.

wowf1 · Post 02 Dec 2005, 17:39

Ok so this is what I visualised. I used Pro/Desktop to create a replica Enkei F1 wheel, and then modified it slightly to accomodate the vanes. It's worked out well because I can vary the angle of all the vanes at the same time. (after about 5 hours CAD anyway lol)

I did try to create an animation by using different configurations but it wasn't having any of it! Anyway, hope this works:

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/1213/f1vvwpic8xk.jpg

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/1610 ... ic37kj.jpg

rob

ss.vamsikrishna · Post 07 Dec 2005, 09:49

too good "wowf1 " exactly the way i was thinking ........really cool man
but any will it be of any use , any body please do a CFD using this .......
i hope it should create some difference in aerodynamics ... downforce

wowf1 · Post 07 Dec 2005, 14:59

lol cheers, glad you like my work. CFD would be a nightmare though because you might have to have the wheel rotating? Or maybe you could just blow 'CFD' air through the wheel and see what rotational force it would generate.

Scuderia_Russ · Post 07 Dec 2005, 21:17

You could have a rotating wheel finished by next Christmas if you start now Wow!

wrecks · Post 12 Dec 2005, 00:37

Ok, speaking of Bernoulli's principle, what if the wheels had long cylinders extending outwards. The velocity of the air traveling over the cylinder would be less than the velocity of the air travelling under it which would cause a lower pressure on the bottom of the cylinder creating a downward force. I don't think it would create a significant amount of downforce unless the cylinder was VERY long, but it might be interesting to see how much downforce a short cylinder would make.

ss.vamsikrishna · Post 12 Dec 2005, 08:00

i dont think a uniform cylinder will produce any downward force.....
as the cylinder is uniform air will flow at equal speeds both on top and bottom so no downward force ......
it should be shape of wing.....reverse wing to produce downforce......

Guest · Post 12 Dec 2005, 11:15

A spinning uniform cylinder will produce downforce depending on which way it spins.

DaveKillens · Post 12 Dec 2005, 15:29

A spinning cylinder definitely produces force vectors. But it also generates a lot of drag relative. Here is a good description of how it works.
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/beach.html

ss.vamsikrishna · Post 13 Dec 2005, 11:52

take a very ideal case when cylinder is very very smooth, then i dont think it will pull the air along its direction creating more as the link says

"However, the details of how a rotating cylinder creates lift are still pretty complex. Next to any surface, the molecules of the air will stick to the surface as discussed in the properties of air slide. This thin layer of molecules will entrain or pull the surrounding flow in the direction that the surface moves."

but taking a ideal condition it will not pull air , then no lift or down force, yaa
if surface is bit rough it can pull the air along and that thin air layer does generate the lift. but i still believe it will be very less........

DaveKillens · Post 13 Dec 2005, 16:42

Please don't asusme that even if a surface is as smooth as practically possible, it doesn't have an influence on the airflow along it. The link I provided was from NASA. If you stick to your assumptions and do not accept hard science, well, just too bad.

Apex · Post 13 Dec 2005, 23:01

If you dont believe proven theory, then maybe a real world example will help:

This is Jack Cousteau's Calypso ship, which uses a spinning cylinder to produce a driving force. It could be thought of as a sail as it requires a wind to produce the difference in pressures that is required.

As dave pointed out it has large drag, but this is not at that important at these low speeds. Also it makes the ship unique, so people give him research funds.

ss.vamsikrishna · Post 14 Dec 2005, 06:57

hey apex and dave , i believe it , and the nasa and ships were total eye openers . thanks
see in cricket also this happens actually they make the ball swing giving it
spin along its axis but they make ball bit rough on one side so that it swings.....
i thought ideal terms ......... sorry it was a bad assumption.
the great bernoulli therom will definetly come in to picture................

both nasa link and ship were really cool

wowf1 · Post 14 Dec 2005, 20:24

lol where has this thread gone? We started with wheels, and how to create downforce (or as I showed, to create lateral force and do away with some of the need for downforce) to spinning cylinders on boats! odd