Reducing the drag of a two element wing through stall

[feynman]

The mechanism is in the end-plates

Here is the F10 version:


We haven't seen an MP4-25 photo, sure, but just applying a little engineering common sense tells us that you don't have the motor in the cockpit, and then attempt to thread the drive through the bulkhead, down the nose, down both wing supports, along the front-wing then up the end plates.


Has anyone come up with my motion-free pneumatic throttle yet?

[Pup]

Going faster is all about not stalling (this applies to all things in life )

Not an F1 car travelling in a straight line.

OK SLC so how about:-
Knee covers hole, no jet blowing over rear of upper wing element.
Rear of element stalls, DF from rear of element ceases.
Form drag force increase is less than DF.
Higher top speed.
Knee uncovers hole, air blown through slot onto rear of upper wing element.
Laminar flow established, DF created drag force increased.
Aero set up for cornering.

That's the theory. If we could find someone to test it, then we could clear this place of those pesky unicorns.

Though I doubt the flow is ever truly laminar.

[djones]

I'm confused. I though moving aero was banned?

[tok-tokkie]

Wiki on fluidics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics

It includes this diagram of a fluidic amplifier but I would call it a flip-flop valve.


A pulse to the side port C1 causes the flow to flip across to outlet O2 etc...

[Shaddock]

I'm confused. I though moving aero was banned?

It is, except the moving front wing element. Helps overtaking so I'm told

3.18 Driver adjustable bodywork :
A single closed section situated each side of car centre line in the volume bounded by :
- lines 450mm and 800mm in front of the front wheel centre line ;
- a vertical plane which intersects these lines at a distance 250mm from the car centre line ;
- and the inboard face of the bodywork described in Article 3.7.5 ;
is allowed to change incidence while the vehicle is in motion within a maximum range of 6 degrees, provided any such change maintains compliance with all of the bodywork dimensional regulations.
Alteration of the incidence of these sections must be made simultaneously and may only be commanded by direct driver input and controlled using the control electronics specified in Article 8.2. Except when the car is in the pit lane, a maximum of two adjustments may be made within any single lap of a circuit.

[Pup]

Wiki on fluidics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics

It includes this diagram of a fluidic amplifier but I would call it a flip-flop valve.


A pulse to the side port C1 causes the flow to flip across to outlet O2 etc...

Well, what do you know. That actually makes sense, and it's the bit that was keeping me from believing in the 'switch'. When I looked up 'fluidic valve' like SLC suggested, all I got were pressure switches and such. But there it was all along, just waiting to be found. Good work! This would actually tie everything together, solving all the car's mysteries, with no moving parts. Very elegant.

So my guess is the flow would switch between the wing and the outlet over the tail light. Or - perhaps the flow to the upper wing is constant, but the flow to the lower wing, traveling through the center strut, is switched. (Switching off the lower wing would stall the upper one as well.) The whole thing controlled via the scoop up front.

I like it. You know, with this info, the whole thing doesn't even seem that far fetched. Complicated, certainly; but not far fetched.

[Pierce89]

In the endplates? Do youhave pictures?

The tone of "knowing" in your posts leaves me surprised you didn't know this. It's common knowledge the teams have their wing adjusters in the endplates.

[pgj]

You guys have got some serious stuff going on here. There are pages and pages of speculation all over the internet discussing what McLaren is up to and how it is achieving it. It is fascinating.

I don't expect that the front flap will be used twice a lap this season. It is more likely that it will be used as a trim that gets adjusted as fuel is burned off.

[TheMinister]

Wiki on fluidics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics

It includes this diagram of a fluidic amplifier but I would call it a flip-flop valve.


A pulse to the side port C1 causes the flow to flip across to outlet O2 etc...

Well, what do you know. That actually makes sense, and it's the bit that was keeping me from believing in the 'switch'. When I looked up 'fluidic valve' like SLC suggested, all I got were pressure switches and such. But there it was all along, just waiting to be found. Good work! This would actually tie everything together, solving all the car's mysteries, with no moving parts. Very elegant.

So my guess is the flow would switch between the wing and the outlet over the tail light. Or - perhaps the flow to the upper wing is constant, but the flow to the lower wing, traveling through the center strut, is switched. (Switching off the lower wing would stall the upper one as well.) The whole thing controlled via the scoop up front.

I like it. You know, with this info, the whole thing doesn't even seem that far fetched. Complicated, certainly; but not far fetched.

And another one begins to believe....

I doubt it'd be as complex as that system shown there. I'd imagine that if you blew the air in just up-flow from where it split to wing/engine, you could easily modify the inlet that the bulk of the air went down.

[Pup]

I imagine the complication is in getting the whole thing tuned to work just so. Of course, that would explain all of Mac's fiddling with the various inlets and outlets.

I hope this all is true; and I hope it works - it's really quite a beautiful thing.

[Richard]

I don't expect that the front flap will be used twice a lap this season. It is more likely that it will be used as a trim that gets adjusted as fuel is burned off.

Agreed, that's what Jensen confirmed in a recent interview.

They would have initially been designed for use twice per lap which was the intention when they were introduced last year.

[Richard]

it's really quite a beautiful thing.

A unicorn?

ps - I agree that I think there is something going on there with that fat fin and odd duct. However, those are the only known facts, and some of the speculation is definitely in the realm of unicorn land. I've always considered the topic to be a rather interesting "what if" discussion until noted otherwise. If true, it would be rather beautiful.

[Pup]

The funny thing is that there is some engineer at McLaren reading this all right now, saying to himself either:

A) Ahh, they've finally got it.

or

B) Huh. That might just work.

[Giblet]

Yay!

Finally, the knee hole is starting to make some sense (To everyone else), and work within the scope of what has been presented here, and what we see with the bulbous shark fin and split intake.

Does't mean it is yet, but this latest valve diagram has shown what I have been considering all along, is now plausible, possible, and maybe even, "likely".

Hmmmmmm =D>

[SLC]

Yay!

Finally, the knee hole is starting to make some sense (To everyone else), and work within the scope of what has been presented here, and what we see with the bulbous shark fin and split intake.

Does't mean it is yet, but this latest valve diagram has shown what I have been considering all along, is now plausible, possible, and maybe even, "likely".

Hmmmmmm =D>

Why do you think I was telling people to google "fluidic" valve?