Reducing the drag of a two element wing through stall

[hybridreload]

I am still taken back that some users on this technical site, were so sick of hearing about us talking and speculating about something technical, felt the need to complain, trying to stifle one of the best technical discussions that has been on this site in ages. We were on the cusp of figuring out in detail how it works, with a simple process of observing and discussing. Most of the more technical/intelligence inclined users were not nay-saying because they were sick of the word snorkel.

even if it was a left field idea, it was a great discussion other than a bunch of bran new users yelling "COOLING COOLING!!!!"

This isn't about told you so, it's about letting people have discussions without complaining about sore eyes. If you are not into it, don't bitch, move on.

Fine it's in a new thread, no problem, fair enough. I hope some people are seasoning and slow roasting their hats for a good dinner tonight, followed by a serving of pie with humble berries.

Now that is has come and gone, and there are details to be sorted, it's coming together. This site lists high up in google searches, and this discussion attracted a swath of new users, strengthening the site more.

Thanks to SCL, Pup, Raptor22, Scarbs, Manchild, Jason.Parker.86, autogyro, Shaddock, and many that I have missed, and those who supported me in PM's when I knew I was on to something. Also to the "F1 guys" that had some more intimate knowledge and didn't want to post publicly, thanks also.

Agree completely, if people dont let the "mad" sounding ideas develop how can we know if it isnt actually very clever.

The line between genius and insanity is often blurred. Yes the simplest explanation is often the correct one. But how often is major innovation made from the simplest explanantion?

As you said, if you dont like the discussion then dont take part.

[autogyro]

Ferrari should put a midget version of Montezemolo in the engine cover.
All his hot air will be more than enough for them to catch up on aero.

[Just_a_fan]

I am still taken back that some users on this technical site, were so sick of hearing about us talking and speculating about something technical, felt the need to complain, trying to stifle one of the best technical discussions that has been on this site in ages. We were on the cusp of figuring out in detail how it works, with a simple process of observing and discussing. Most of the more technical/intelligence inclined users were not nay-saying because they were sick of the word snorkel.

even if it was a left field idea, it was a great discussion other than a bunch of bran new users yelling "COOLING COOLING!!!!"

This isn't about told you so, it's about letting people have discussions without complaining about sore eyes. If you are not into it, don't bitch, move on.

Fine it's in a new thread, no problem, fair enough. I hope some people are seasoning and slow roasting their hats for a good dinner tonight, followed by a serving of pie with humble berries.

Now that is has come and gone, and there are details to be sorted, it's coming together. This site lists high up in google searches, and this discussion attracted a swath of new users, strengthening the site more.

Thanks to SCL, Pup, Raptor22, Scarbs, Manchild, Jason.Parker.86, autogyro, Shaddock, and many that I have missed, and those who supported me in PM's when I knew I was on to something. Also to the "F1 guys" that had some more intimate knowledge and didn't want to post publicly, thanks also.

But if people who don't agree just "move on", it won't be much of a discussion, will it?

I think the key point you make is that there are still some details to be sorted. Lots of what is being posted elsewhere on the web appears to come direct from this forum; people on this forum are then pointing to those other "sources" as evidence of their position. Which is a little circular, I'm sure you'll agree.

I'm fairly happy that the snorkel is part of the control system for the rear wing; I still have doubts that a team like McLaren would use their drivers' knee as the method of closing a hole in a pipe, however. But this is one of the details that are yet to be confirmed / denied.

I don't think there is a need for humble pie for people who disagreed with you. What stood out about the discussion was not that people disagreed with each other but that, generally, it was done in a mature manner. Very little of the histrionics one sees in some forums around the web. =D>

I think the most interesting part of this subject is still to come: how do other teams implement their own versions of the system. Or even if they will do so - the speed trap speeds in Bahrain FP1 and FP2 don't scream that the McLarens are hugely faster than everyone else. Maybe they haven't used the system yet or maybe Bahrain isn't a track that will benefit from it as much as, say, Spa or Monza. Monza will be really interesting; will the McLarens run more wing than everyone else because they can then lose the drag on the straights? If that is the case then they'll be much quicker over a lap than anyone else because they'll be quicker through the chicanes etc. and no slower on the straights. I'm looking forward to this story developing, I have to say.

[Mysticf1]

Ill eat my hat and admit that it seems the snorkel idea is plausible if not already implemented, my apologies goto you Giblet, but seriously you need to chill out a bit and leave the emotion out of the forum.

I absolutely love the shot of Webber using his balls to just stroll over to the macca and have a look, gotta love him for that. I can't believe the FIA have allowed this, it really does set a dangerous precedent, i dont see the difference between using an electronically controlled valve or a driver controlled valve...how about using peices of string to steer the rear wheels like a billycart?

[Raptor22]

This whole thing is ridiculous.

the driver activates a system that changes the cars rear wing aerodynamics. It's illegal, pure and simple.

The ducted air is used for a purpose other than cooling, the moving air is used to disrupt the flow (apparently) therefore that air stream is a movable device and is illegal.

[manchild]

I absolutely love the shot of Webber using his balls to just stroll over to the macca and have a look, gotta love him for that.

Got some link to that video? I'd love to see it.

[autogyro]

Ill eat my hat and admit that it seems the snorkel idea is plausible if not already implemented, my apologies goto you Giblet, but seriously you need to chill out a bit and leave the emotion out of the forum.

I absolutely love the shot of Webber using his balls to just stroll over to the macca and have a look, gotta love him for that. I can't believe the FIA have allowed this, it really does set a dangerous precedent, i dont see the difference between using an electronically controlled valve or a driver controlled valve...how about using peices of string to steer the rear wheels like a billycart?

Inovation is very important in F1, however I can see your point.
To me aero and CFD is a closed loop and the money spent and the technology is now almost completely wasted on chasing each new set of regulations.
There is little if any real advance in any of the technologies used.
KERS was the answer to this, so blame Ferrari and motor mouth Montezemolo for holding F1 back from its rightful place in the 21st century.

[Raptor22]

a fluidic switch does have a moving component.....the fluid.

[autogyro]

I absolutely love the shot of Webber using his balls to just stroll over to the macca and have a look, gotta love him for that.

Got some link to that video? I'd love to see it.

Sorry but Australians who support criminals like Briatore do not impress me.
They certainly do not have 'balls'.
If he ever beats Vettel I might start giving a to--.
He should stop bowing and scrapping to Button and get on with it.

[Mysticf1]

Got some link to that video? I'd love to see it.

I wish!! I was referring to the image Raceman posted in the Bahrain thread

[hybridreload]

a fluidic switch does have a moving component.....the fluid.

but the fluid is the air itself! the principle came from liquid dynamics, but will work with fast moving air.

[Mysticf1]

Sorry but Australians who support criminals like Briatore do not impress me.
They certainly do not have 'balls'.
If he ever beats Vettel I might start giving a to--.
He should stop bowing and scrapping to Button and get on with it.

me resists the urge to stooop to a ying yang type response

[twostring]

I'm no engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but I still tinker. I found this paper that might explain how a system like this works.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ac010374q

Using one air flow to redirect a different air flow...have I got it right? I apologize if this is redundant at this point in the discussion, but I just wanted to make sure I understood it correctly.

PS - sad to see the state that some of these threads have fallen in to. I lurk around and geek out over the technical bits, but all of the "you're wrong, I'm right" nonsense gets to be a bit much at times. Thanks to those that continue the technical discussions.

[Sebp]

Can't wait for the first official protests. It's the DD-crap all over again. Teams that don't have the system are jealous they weren't bright enough to think outside the box.
The FIA should implement a reasonable limit for driver activated aero so we don't end up with those proposed flutes. Similar to what they did with the front wing.

@Raptor: As long as the FIA says Maccas system is legal, it is.

[Scania]

I think that the driver's knee maybe only a "switch of switch"

the air flow not through the knee pots directly, but useing this flow to control the flow in the fin & intake by some method