Is F1 getting boring?

[manchild]

then please explain why there is more overtaking in single make formulae...

Because of more driver's errors due to lack of sequential gearboxes and other driver's aid devices.

If Arnoux and Villeneuve had computerized control of transmission of today's cars, there would have been no overtaking. They've both made a pile of mistakes in those few laps because they had to use right arm to change gears, left foot to press clutch etc. That's why the overtaking occurred.

@segedunum, Ron is just jealously pissed since his "magical" blown wing sucks. If that was the truth, Webber would have experienced same problems as Vettel.

[autogyro]

then please explain why there is more overtaking in single make formulae...

Because of more driver's errors due to lack of sequential gearboxes and other driver's aid devices.

If Arnoux and Villeneuve had computerized control of transmission of today's cars, there would have been no overtaking. They've both made a pile of mistakes in those few laps because they had to use right arm to change gears, left foot to press clutch etc. That's why the overtaking occurred.

The reasons you give have nothing to do with one make formula.

[manchild]

The reasons you give have nothing to do with one make formula.

There are various series of one make formula. From those purely mechanical, to those with some of driver's aid technology used in F1. The amount of overtaking in one make formula is disproportional to amount of driver's aid technology in specific series.

[autogyro]

Sorry but I fail to see how your suggestions on the reasons for little overtaking have anything directly to do with one make formula.

Let me rephrase it than - one make formula series with less driver's aid technology brings more driver's errors, and therefore more overtaking than one make formula series with more driver's aid technology.

Ah right.
I am sorry to be a nuisance but how do you define 'drivers aid technology'.
All technology on a racing car is there to assist the car and driver to win by making the combination go faster.
At a faster speed the chances of making mistakes increases even with 'driver aids'.
I cannot see a difference here, other than increased speed making it more difficult to pass. Regulations are used partly to address this issue.

[manchild]

Any technology that enables driver to work less on control of the car is what I define as driver's aid technology.

Sequential computerized gearbox/engine throttle/clutch system (replaces mechanical foot-operated clutch, mechanical arm-operated gearbox, mechanical foot-operated throttle).

Get number of gear changes per race, than multiply that with number of drivers. Now think of how many errors (clean opportunities for overtaking) seq. gb prevents?

If you don't make mistakes (and you don't since technology prevents them) than a driver in similar car can't overtake you. That's my point.

[hecti]

All i keep hear is limit this and limit that, isnt the whole point to get rid of the limitations that make the cars similar? ie: downforce limit, worst idea i could ever think of.

....face palm....

[marcush.]

Any technology that enables driver to work less on control of the car is what I define as driver's aid technology.

Sequential computerized gearbox at most (replaces mechanical foot-operated clutch, mechanical arm-operated gearbox, mechanical foot-operated throttle).

Get number of gear changes per race, than multiply that with number of drivers. Now think of how many errors (clean opportunities for overtaking) seq. gb prevents?

If you don't make mistakes (and you don't since technology prevents them) than a driver in similar car can't overtake you. That's my point.

with this logic it would be a good idea to remove the seatbelts and provide a 2 inch movement of the seat in all directions plus a variable ratio steering rack and for the hell of it a on off switch instead of a throttle peaddle positioned on the knee of the driver..

I bet the drivers would have so much of a handful that some would not even realise that they were lapped not overtaken ...and the real issue would be to survive not win..

[manchild]

with this logic it would be a good idea to remove the seatbelts and provide a 2 inch movement of the seat in all directions plus a variable ratio steering rack and for the hell of it a on off switch instead of a throttle peaddle positioned on the knee of the driver..

I bet the drivers would have so much of a handful that some would not even realise that they were lapped not overtaken ...and the real issue would be to survive not win..

Seat-belts? C'mon. I'm really trying to be constructive and serious. Technology that jumps to driver's aid in of control of the engine, clutch, gearbox, diff. has nothing to do with safety.

I'm all for development of brakes and suspension. Bring back ABS and any other subsystem that would make brakes and suspension more efficient. That's something car industry would certainly appreciate.

[marcush.]

to me the ideal would be :here you have a can of fuel ,or better yet :this amount of energy .here is the start of the weekend ,you need to qualify on saturday for the race on sunday. The race starts at 2 o´clock the first who hass covered the 300km is the winner.
all drivers have to weigh the same ,so if a driver is slimmer he can take along a
can of beer or whatever.
Recource cap 40Mill € per year no excuses no quarter given.what you cannot account for has to be removed.

lots of concepts lots of opportunities...would the battle be closely fighted till the last corner? Yes.

[marcush.]

with this logic it would be a good idea to remove the seatbelts and provide a 2 inch movement of the seat in all directions plus a variable ratio steering rack and for the hell of it a on off switch instead of a throttle peaddle positioned on the knee of the driver..

I bet the drivers would have so much of a handful that some would not even realise that they were lapped not overtaken ...and the real issue would be to survive not win..

Seat-belts? C'mon. I'm really trying to be constructive and serious. Technology that jumps to driver's aid in of control of the engine, clutch, gearbox, diff. has nothing to do with safety.

I'm all for development of brakes and suspension. Bring back ABS and any other subsystem that would make brakes and suspension more efficient. That's something car industry would certainly appreciate.

I was of course exaggerating .the point is if we need driver distraction it could as well be to have nude girls waving at the drivers during the race as seen in montecarlo when some heros missed their braking points admitting they wer distracted by a picture of a girl wallpaper in loews..
You do not need the stick back in the car to provide distraction.

[hecti]

to me the ideal would be :here you have a can of fuel ,or better yet :this amount of energy .here is the start of the weekend ,you need to qualyfy on saturday for the race on sunday. The race starts at 2 o´clock the first who ahs covered the 300km is the winner.
all drivers have to weigh the same ,so if a driver is slimmer he can take along a
can of beer or whatever.
Recource cap 40Mill € per year no excuses no quarter given.what you cannot account for has to be removed.

lots of concepts lots of opportunities...would the battle be closely fighted till the last corner? Yes.

Why make the drivers weight the same, theres already a minimum weight rule so theres no point. And a budget cap....face palm.... 40mill is just not logical, there are better ideas than this.

[marcush.]

I would not have more rules than this ,come with 4 6 or 10 wheels .do whatever you think is best ,tune a segway or bring a truck ,it has to be wheels though.
i think the driver minimum weight is necessary to not give a margin to those who are
weighing less so equal terms for anyone.
the recourcecap is necessary to avoid nasa participating and buying out all other teams..
the open formula would of course bring out the best in engineering as you really could realise NEW ideas if they are worth pursuing.... so we would stand a chance to see real new things battling it out with known and proven concepts..

[kilcoo316]

The answer IMO it an over all limit on the actual Down Force.

Overly simplistic.

I could easily design a car that has half the downforce of current cars, yet totally screws up the wake for the car behind.


It is how the downforce is generated, and how any car interacts with another upstream which is the problem.

[Green Genes]

Would banning wings do it? Could a car that relied on the underbody for all its downforce follow the car ahead and get an actual tow instead of becoming slower?

[Just_a_fan]

Would banning wings do it? Could a car that relied on the underbody for all its downforce follow the car ahead and get an actual tow instead of becoming slower?

Yes.