Is F1 getting boring?

[christopher.mahlon]

That race got boring as soon as the track dried up. Hamilton and Webber were 2 seconds a lap faster than Kubica and the Ferraris is clean air, but as soon as they got up behind them the stopped dead. I think that's a huge problem. I'm not for the gimmick of spraying water on the track at random intervals or anything like that. I do think that the people in charge of F1 need to be willing to make some absolutely huge changes in order to make the cars raceable again.

The Ferraris didn't bother to come in to get new tires because if they got stuck behind someone they wouldn't be able to use them, and they also knew that they could hold off anyone who came up behind them. That's not exciting at all to me; it's cynical.

[mep]

I was wrong F1 is getting exciting

Only as long as FIA doesn't find a rule to prevent rain during races.

[xxChrisxx]

That's not exciting at all to me; it's cynical.

Don't you think thats a sign of the times though. Back in the 80's you had drivers and teams that would happy send one up the inside. You won't find that in the modern world.

The whole nature of F1 has changed. It's not just a case of the cars can't do it, it's that everyone has the long game in mind.

[Germanengineering]

I was wrong F1 is getting exciting

Only as long as FIA doesn't find a rule to prevent rain during races.

Rain always makes for an exciting race.

[010010011010]

great race, but again it is down to the track.
History, Atomsphere, Trees, Actual gravel traps (not just a big run off area)
New tracks are rubbish car parks by comparrison.

Still i find it funny that everyone was giving off about f1 after bahrain just because it was a procession. EVERY SPORT has its crap days. Like boring 0-0 draws in football, but you dont see FIFA changing the rules every year to get more goals. Its the crap races that makes thses good ones all the more special

[Ciro Pabón]

Guys, I merged a new thread, about F1 suddenly becoming exciting, with this one.

One thread to complain about infinite boredom or gigantic ecstasy is enough.

I still think F1 has been more or less the same thing for the last 45 years (and I've been there): pretty interesting when in the bleachers, you become mighty busy when in the cockpit.

If you think racing is better than sex or worse than politics, go and race. Your feet will be touching the ground long before you step down from the car.

[Ogami musashi]

That race got boring as soon as the track dried up. Hamilton and Webber were 2 seconds a lap faster than Kubica and the Ferraris is clean air, but as soon as they got up behind them the stopped dead. I think that's a huge problem. I'm not for the gimmick of spraying water on the track at random intervals or anything like that. I do think that the people in charge of F1 need to be willing to make some absolutely huge changes in order to make the cars raceable again.

The Ferraris didn't bother to come in to get new tires because if they got stuck behind someone they wouldn't be able to use them, and they also knew that they could hold off anyone who came up behind them. That's not exciting at all to me; it's cynical.

I would like you to imagine a situation:

You're driving on the street, you are 50km/h and you catch a car at 30km/h. What happens? You need to slow down to at max the same speed as him to prevent collision.

Now imagine that you are in the same street at 150km/h and you catch the same car at 30km/h..what happens? Same..you have to break to get to 30km/h.


What i want to tell you is that, you can have 2 seconds/lap advantage, those cars are racing, that is, there's a line on which you can be fast, outside that line you either:
1/can't make it
2/are far slower

So the fact that they were 2s/faster and suddenly get stuck is normal, it happens in every racing series; you can't just cruise away nor go through the car in front, you have to wait to have the clear way.

Once you're forced to be roughly on the same pace than the other, you have to ask yourself why you were 2sec faster; More downforce for the same speed? More tyre grip? Simply you drove better?

Case one will give you a spare downforce, that is you'll lose downforce but you'll still have enough downforce to stay close so roughly have the same grip; Case two doesn't change, you'll still have an advantage on tyres so it's like case 1; Case 3 makes that you're stuck..you lose grip compared to him.

We'll make the assumption following cars do lose downforce, which is obvious for most of the situation.

Analyzing all cases requires to compare with the consequence: A car with the same grip will stay at the same distance than the leading car; A car with less will lose distance until he regains grip, a car that has more grip will close in.

Thus what is important to look at is : The distance between leading car and following car, for two reasons. First it is an indication of loss of downforce, and second the closer the car the easier it will be for him to overtake (either on the straight or by cornering better).

So if in case 1 the car is able to follow close that means the loss of downforce is not so severe, especially if we take the hypothesis that the difference in downforce between the two cars is not that big, which is likely for top teams.

Case 2 means the same.

Case 3 means even more that.


All in one, we can see the cars this year are able to follow each other closer than previous year; so this is positive.


All this Post to say to you than having a huge advantage in lap time and getting stuck is not a problem; you would have zero downforce you would still lose your pace except if you're on a big wide track.

If you're not convinced, ask yourself why you have blue flags.

[autogyro]

Drivers confirm with no aero input or advice whatsoever, that a car needs to be at least three seconds a lap faster to pass the car in front in ordinary circumstances.
So mistakes and the weather are the two unlikely things available for overtaking against the great god aero.

[G-Rock]

Like I said a few weeks ago, Australia was going to be a nailbiter and it was!!
It's quintisential F1. Some rain, some spinouts, awsome passing manuevers. It was all done without the weanie artificial add on regulations that I've seen posted here.
There was nothing boring about this race and it took a race like Bahrain to make us appreciate that. Hey and maybe next race will be a yawn but you don't want to miss it because what if...it's another race like Australia? That's what F1 is all about.
The aero regs are fine. If a driver can't pass because of some turbulence then he needs to grow a pair not decrease downforce or whatever. If you watched Hamiltons passes, they were all done with drafting and outbraking. Without a wake caused by the wings, that may not have been possible. The end of the race was his own fault because he can't take care of his tires.

I call on this thread to be done and over with. There is nothing else to discuss. Leave the regs alone. F1 is about wings and slicks and it has been since the 1970's, otherwise go a watch touring car racing or rallying if you don't like downforce.

[mep]

Hey it's not just about aero anymore for me refueling is missing.
When F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motorsport then fuelling must be allowed. Even when it might not change the amount of on track passes it is the thing who made a F1 race a mind game.
I used to love tactical races as much as rain races. It was like a game of chess. It is just pure exiting when two drivers are close behind each other at the beginning of a race and when one decides then to change his strategy.
They split up then on track but they still have to keep the other in mind and setting one precision qualy lap next to the other. Then they had to lap other cars and mind the on track happenings. Meanwhile I was sitting in front of the TV with a calculator adding the on track distances, the needed time for a pit stop and the time difference per lap like the team members did so.
Then the drivers had to go to pit exactly as expected. Now everything was up to the pit grew. They were on highest pressure to not mess up the race and do a perfect fast stop. Sometimes they run out just to bluff the other team and run them into a mistake. Then after more than one hour and after the final pit stop those two drivers came together on track just within a few tenths of a second.
After so many kilometers, lapped cars, pit stops the difference was just a blink of the eye. It is like pure drama, tension over the whole race but you have to understand what is happening there. Sometimes joy and disappointment was so close together. You could have been yelling and getting tears in your eyes just a few seconds later. I just can wish you that you experienced those races same as I did because those things might be gone now.

Without refueling the most important aspect depending tactic is gone. It might be easier to watch for those who don't fully understand what happened there and the consequences for the later race.
For me it is more like F1 for dummies now.

[Pandamasque]

All in one, we can see the cars this year are able to follow each other closer than previous year; so this is positive.

Really? I though they had to fall back to avoid increased tire wear and engine overheating. In Melbourne it was cooler so it wasn't a problem that much although overtaking was extremely hard yet again. The main reason we had so much close following and ballsy overtaking manoeuvres is that drivers made more mistakes in the wet and therefore it was easier to force your opponent into a mistake and have a chance to pass.
The things that made this race interesting were all irregular and won't happen in every race:
- wet race = more driver errors
- wet race = no mandatory Bridgestone advertising tyre strategy
- faster and slower cars mixed due to different tire calls (see the point above^) = speed differencials

I expect an incredibly dull race in Sepang unless it rains.

[ESPImperium]

I expect an incredibly dull race in Sepang unless it rains.

Guess what the 10 day forcasts seem to suggest??? Rain. Hope we se rain like last year, but barely driveable wet. Like China last year.

[Ogami musashi]

Really? I though they had to fall back to avoid increased tire wear and engine overheating.

It has always been the same. Again physics do not change; The question is the distance, and the distance is shorter this year, so more overtaking opportunities.
I agree with you that some factors may favor that, but again physics are physic, whatever the grip of the following car (if we talk about leading cars, that is cars with not so much differences in grip) if aero were that worse, they wouldn't have overtake; They did.

Please watch a 2008 race a see the distance between cars.

[timbo]

Drivers confirm with no aero input or advice whatsoever, that a car needs to be at least three seconds a lap faster to pass the car in front in ordinary circumstances.
So mistakes and the weather are the two unlikely things available for overtaking against the great god aero.

There were plenty of aero grip at the early 80's, and plenty of action too.
It's not that aero is the only culprit.

[Pandamasque]

Really? I though they had to fall back to avoid increased tire wear and engine overheating.

It has always been the same. Again physics do not change; The question is the distance, and the distance is shorter this year, so more overtaking opportunities.
I agree with you that some factors may favor that, but again physics are physic, whatever the grip of the following car (if we talk about leading cars, that is cars with not so much differences in grip) if aero were that worse, they wouldn't have overtake; They did.

Please watch a 2008 race a see the distance between cars.

It is surely not as close as last year. Also the overheating problem is more evident. Especially more than in pre 09 formula. It seems like the 'central heating' at the back of these cars (RB6, STR5 being the most obvious cases) is designed to create overheating problems for the car behind.
IMO, the biggest improvement in overtaking after '08 comes from the slick tires, that seem to be more manageable. We've seen some drivers getting away with powersliding out of the corners.