Red Bull RB6

[marcush.]

I was wondering about that..

What if a "component" just happened to be near to or downstream of a part of the exhaust, and hot air "wafts" onto it allowing it to soften and compress slowly during the race distance and slowly return to it's original position as it cools.

I take you point about the technicality of it, but since the spirit of the ban of "Active" suspension was to prevent teams running truly reactive and proactive controls of suspension movement, perhaps there's a loophole in the regs??

Agree with you though, my earlier comments and these too are merely conjecture... but so were the first comments about McLaren's Blown wing, so I guess sometimes healthy conjecture and discussion can be useful??

I think it is perfectly possible to design a system that will withstand a period of time the heat and then it will collapse only to revert to its original tension
when cooling down.. At least it would explain the very high ride height when the car is without driver and empty tank in parkferme...so it is a valid point no question .

[marcush.]

I could imagine something along those lines , but why so complicated ? Is Newey really the guy not going for easy solutions?

Haha, good point. Why go for a simple system with little to go wrong when a far more elaborate and fault-prone one might also work for a while?!? =D>

thats my point

relying on waste heat to make something do something with your suspension seems so
random to me and so unrepeatable ... but if it works and it is obviously working..

why not ?

[DaveKillens]

Shape memory alloys can perform this application.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_alloy

The two-way shape memory effect is the effect that the material remembers two different shapes: one at low temperatures, and one at the high temperature shape.

So the technology is there, but is it practical in a Formula One car? One problem is that if the stewards decide to measure ride height immediately after a run, the car will probably be riding low.

[marcush.]

Shape memory alloys can perform this application.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_alloy

The two-way shape memory effect is the effect that the material remembers two different shapes: one at low temperatures, and one at the high temperature shape.

So the technology is there, but is it practical in a Formula One car? One problem is that if the stewards decide to measure ride height immediately after a run, the car will probably be riding low.

there is no minimum ride height defined.. you are not allowed to wear the plank more than a certain amount.

the interesting bit is .how can you make sure the thing is slowly going to collapse...I´m sure the heat willbe there in no time ...so maybe they wrap it in heat shield to slow the collapsing down...until the car has a chance to burn some fuel.. .. it still sound farfeteched and complicated (to control).

[RacingManiac]

wouldn't it still get far too low when it is full of fuel? Unless its riding on some kind of stop or something....at that point you might as well setup your ride spring on a stop on low fuel and it won't go any lower with a full tank...

[mike_dangerous]

Shape memory alloys can perform this application.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_alloy

The two-way shape memory effect is the effect that the material remembers two different shapes: one at low temperatures, and one at the high temperature shape.

So the technology is there, but is it practical in a Formula One car? One problem is that if the stewards decide to measure ride height immediately after a run, the car will probably be riding low.

I think the rules have a list of allowable materials in them so I doubt it would be possible to use shape memory alloys. But hopefully one day things like that and piezoelectric materials will be allowed to a degree although thats for another time.

[djos]

A 19th century steam engineer would be able to explain a workable system without thinking twice.
A piston with hydrolic fluid on either side under gas pressure, the piston rod moves either way under load and it varies valves which change the pressure applied to each side of the piston and the piston returns to its set position plus a difference accounting for spring deflection (higher down pressure).
The conventional sprung suspension works within the same mechanical linkage.
No matter what the load, the level remains the same.
It can all be contained in a conventional looking set up.

I agree AG, this is the most likely scenario as it would be simple to implement and light weight - some of the other proposals here (eg heating things up) are a/not simple & b/prolly weigh too much for an F1 car!

[outer_bongolia]

A 19th century steam engineer would be able to explain a workable system without thinking twice.
A piston with hydrolic fluid on either side under gas pressure, the piston rod moves either way under load and it varies valves which change the pressure applied to each side of the piston and the piston returns to its set position plus a difference accounting for spring deflection (higher down pressure).
The conventional sprung suspension works within the same mechanical linkage.
No matter what the load, the level remains the same.
It can all be contained in a conventional looking set up.

I agree AG, this is the most likely scenario as it would be simple to implement and light weight - some of the other proposals here (eg heating things up) are a/not simple & b/prolly weigh too much for an F1 car!

I think they use a piece of dry ice to push the piston out.
After quali, it sublimes and leaves no trace of what was there...

[Shaddock]

Gordan Murray cracked adjustable ride height 30 years ago!

In those days there were different regs, but essentially they had a microscopic hole that allowed gas to escape over a short period of time when a pressure was applied (DF), lowering the cars dynamic ride height.

When there was no pressure, either in the pits or slowing down lap, the system refilled itself and the car returned to it's previous higher static ride height.

Teams are allowed to manually re-gas their systems today in Parc Ferme conditions, and there are some clever people getting paid to think about these things.

[ringo]

Heat cannot be used, that is considered external power. Heat rate is measured in Watts correct?

[autogyro]

Gas under pressure on the other hand is already allowed in the suspension system.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Most the teams already suspect it is a Gas-derived system.
Apparently Ferrari and a few other heavy hitters are in the final throes of actually putting in a written appeal over the legality of such "systems".
Expect a statement in the next 24 hours.

Personally I would say its illegal. As the rule does stipulate no adjustments can be made in parc ferme. So however ingenious this system is, it goes against the rule.

[marcush.]

we are turning circles.
I´m still convinced a hydraulic piston with bleed hole is legal,reliable repeatable and could even be hidden in hardware already in the car...
the whole gas thing seems to be to vulnerable to external powered obvious debatable..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mclaren Ferrari et al all seem to think to get the best qualites of for a variable suspension, you need gas.
Once the complaint has been lodged, we will know for sure.

How can they circumvent the Parc Ferme rules, when it clearly stipulates no adjustments OF ANY SORT can be made. This is the bone of contention for all the teams, as it contravenes what is already in the rulebook.

[marcush.]

Mclaren Ferrari et al all seem to think to get the best qualites of for a variable suspension, you need gas.
Once the complaint has been lodged, we will know for sure.

How can they circumvent the Parc Ferme rules, when it clearly stipulates no adjustments OF ANY SORT can be made. This is the bone of contention for all the teams, as it contravenes what is already in the rulebook.

you could argue that a sag of the suspension is not exactly an adjustment.It is something you do actively .
When the car sags over time ,it is nothing more or less than what inevitably will happen over time with any system ...it will surely not rise over time unless your spring is holding it down...(ratchet mechanism anyone?)