What will come after the 2.4 V8?

[flynfrog]

I cannot understand how 'petrolheads' conclude it as essential to have the noise of a big V8 when they 'watch' F1. They are muddling their basic senses here.
Most of them 'watch' on TV which is limited by the speakers on the set and at the track the 'experience is only 'heard' by a very small minority.
Watching is done using eyes not ears!
Few people who follow F1 I speak to have ever heard a big racing V8 up close.
I agree it is an experience not to be missed and my own hearing has been damaged by it if I am not mistaken. Not a sensible thing to wish on others unfortunately.
Things are changing and like it or not motor racing noise is not going to remain the prime mover in the sport, if it is still there in ten years at all.

watching is done will all of the senses. Smell and Hearing are much closer tied to memory than vision is.

besides what is more exciting here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKZyzAuJkC4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y33tGrlpVP4

not to mention the smell of castor should be bottled into a cologne

[WhiteBlue]

Press conference Shanghai 2010 with TEAM PRINCIPALS: Eric Boullier (Renault), Colin Kolles (HRT), Adam Parr (Williams), Peter Sauber (BMW Sauber)

Q: (Joe Saward – Grand Prix Special) Can I follow up with a question about engines? We’re talking about having two manufacturers. In fact we have two manufacturers who have just gone into a very large industrial alliance together, which, logically speaking, when it comes to creating new engines for 2013, are not going to both spend the same kind of money to compete against one another. Do you see a situation whereby we only have Ferrari and small, specialist manufacturers, the Cosworths of this world, in the future?
PS: Yes, we will drive with Ferrari engines. It’s not a problem for us.
CK: And we drive Cosworth.
PS: But I think the manufacturers that we have now will stay in Formula One. Maybe we will have some new manufacturers like Volkswagen.
CK: Maybe we will have some new manufacturers, yes, that’s possible, but at the moment we are an independent with Cosworth, so we hope that Cosworth will still be on the market and for the moment we are happy with Cosworth and we look forward to having a good relationship. What will happen after 2013? I think it’s very important to maybe have the world engine, this is very important for certain manufacturers, to get them the entry, so from my point of view we will support the world engine, if we were asked, and I think that Mr Sauber would support this and I think that a few others would support the same. For sure, on the other hand, there are certain people who are against the world engine and they have their own ideas, but as it looks at the moment, the world engine might be a solution, to attract new manufacturers.
AP: I agree with both those comments. We’ve got four engines in Formula One at the moment and I don’t think that’s going to change before 2013 and I think it’s very likely that from 2013 there are going to be more suppliers rather than fewer and that’s because we’re going to have an engine in 2013 that’s going to have better energy consumption, a greener engine and I’m sure it will also be cheaper to manufacture and I think that will attract other companies into the sport. I think that’s another positive thing on the horizon, because we need to change the structure a little bit. We have too few suppliers and the engines cost too much, just too much to make. The technology is getting a bit out of date now as well.
EB: I agree with all the comments, obviously. I would add that engine technology needs to be back for an engine manufacturer like Renault as we are definitely interested in using Formula One as well as a technology platform to be used for road cars. I think cost needs to be controlled as there is a new technical package to be brought in after 2013. I don’t think we will see just one new engine maker. I think there will be, as Colin said, more engine manufacturers interested in maybe coming into Formula One, and that’s good.

There seem to be unanimous support for the GRE by one third of the grid. Beside teams want cost control, technology advance, fuel efficiency, greeness and road relevance to attract suppliers.

[010010011010]

This isnt really a technical debate, its an ethical one. To me though, racing electric cars isnt exciting to watch, its only interesting to develop.
Sound is my main problem, sound accounts for so much of your overall experience. Imagine deiving a formula ford at full tilt as opposed to a formula 3 just crusing around at 3-4000 rpm. Both might be doing similar laps but which would you rather watch?

[autogyro]

I cannot understand how 'petrolheads' conclude it as essential to have the noise of a big V8 when they 'watch' F1. They are muddling their basic senses here.
Most of them 'watch' on TV which is limited by the speakers on the set and at the track the 'experience is only 'heard' by a very small minority.
Watching is done using eyes not ears!
Few people who follow F1 I speak to have ever heard a big racing V8 up close.
I agree it is an experience not to be missed and my own hearing has been damaged by it if I am not mistaken. Not a sensible thing to wish on others unfortunately.
Things are changing and like it or not motor racing noise is not going to remain the prime mover in the sport, if it is still there in ten years at all.

watching is done will all of the senses. Smell and Hearing are much closer tied to memory than vision is.

besides what is more exciting here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKZyzAuJkC4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y33tGrlpVP4

not to mention the smell of castor should be bottled into a cologne

Thanks for the videos flynfrog, unfortunately try as I might, I could not smell anything from my speakers or the monitor and the sound was limited by the frequency response of my sound system and where I had set the volume control.
I wonder if you could advise on a better way to view/ I find that if I turn the sound off, both videos seem to be about even on screen image refresh speeds.
I see you have only featured endurance experimental EVs perhaps you should take a web search for Electric motor cycle racing. I think you will find this sport well mature and a fair bit faster than the karts you featured.

[autogyro]

This isnt really a technical debate, its an ethical one. To me though, racing electric cars isnt exciting to watch, its only interesting to develop.
Sound is my main problem, sound accounts for so much of your overall experience. Imagine deiving a formula ford at full tilt as opposed to a formula 3 just crusing around at 3-4000 rpm. Both might be doing similar laps but which would you rather watch?

Having driven both types, I can only remember the same dead feeling of noise from the nomex balaclava and the helmet I was wearing.
At Snetterton I understand that spectators hear a decent sound from the cars once every 60 seconds or so but at most meetings the cold weather and the wind drown out most of the pleasure. I have seen a couple of hundred spectators braving the weather on occasion there though. I do not think the many thousands who watch on TV actualy hear anywhere near the reality and never have. So what was your point again?

[alelanza]

Some engine sounds even when heard on TV give me goose bumps. Literally. Although I personally prefer 12 and older 6 cylinder engine sounds. I know many F1 fans who keep repeating "bring back good old 3.0L V10s!" every time you mention anything about F1 engine regulation changes. Many of them aren't even too interested in the technical side of racing.

Agreed, I regularly attend races that use nascar V8s, blown rotaries, race prepped flat porsche turbos, screaming honda lawn mowers, etc. you name it.
That doesn't change the fact that listening to the start of an F1 race gives me the bumps, and that listening to a rally car on tv or real life still sounds like a coachroaches nest to me.

[Pandamasque]

WhiteBlue keeps going on about what teams and manufacturers want. Cost, green technologies etc. That's all very well.

This isnt really a technical debate, its an ethical one.

That's why the fans might as well switch to another spec series called Superleague Formula that offers better sound cars, better looking cars, interesting circuits and better racing.

And now a musical pause in the thread.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw4CZUMq98s[/youtube]

[autogyro]

Some engine sounds even when heard on TV give me goose bumps. Literally. Although I personally prefer 12 and older 6 cylinder engine sounds. I know many F1 fans who keep repeating "bring back good old 3.0L V10s!" every time you mention anything about F1 engine regulation changes. Many of them aren't even too interested in the technical side of racing.

Agreed, I regularly attend races that use nascar V8s, blown rotaries, race prepped flat porsche turbos, screaming honda lawn mowers, etc. you name it.
That doesn't change the fact that listening to the start of an F1 race gives me the bumps, and that listening to a rally car on tv or real life still sounds like a coachroaches nest to me.

Strange then that rallying has a far higher spectator base at events than F1.

[autogyro]

WhiteBlue keeps going on about what teams and manufacturers want. Cost, green technologies etc. That's all very well.

This isnt really a technical debate, its an ethical one.

That's why the fans might as well switch to another spec series called Superleague Formula that offers better sound cars, better looking cars, interesting circuits and better racing.

And now a musical pause in the thread.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw4CZUMq98s[/youtube]

Obviously recorded on a childs level mic on a small camcorder or even a mobile phone. Please, if you want a proper recording, pay for me to bring the surround sound recording system we use to record bands and shows. I guarantee a decent result. Mind you with the tiny spekers and mics used in all the so called 'cool' modern kit used by todays young, it is no surprise they have zero idea on what proper sound reproduction is.
It is absolutely pointless trying to reproduce powerful engine sound with such kit, you might as well give up before you start.

[Pandamasque]

Well that's a bootleg obviously. But the band rocks! All 12 of them.

[autogyro]

Well that's a bootleg obviously. But the band rocks! All 12 of them.

Hahaha sorry panda, I know you love those engine sounds, so do I.

[alelanza]

Strange then that rallying has a far higher spectator base at events than F1.

Why do you correlate my aural likes to spectator base? It's very simple, i like the sound of an F1 car more than a rally one, period.
It's like saying it's strange i like color red if most people like blue, see?
Plus cmon dude, monster jam is in town and i know for a fact the stadium will be sold out, however only a few go watch Formula 2000. Is it strange that i prefer the latter?
Most people prefer football over F1, is that strange to you?
Plus, what's the cost of attending an F1 event vs a rally one?
Thought so.

[autogyro]

Yes alelanza but what is your point?

[alelanza]

Yes alelanza but what is your point?

Real simple:

It's very simple, i like the sound of an F1 car more than a rally one, period.

And that you don't need to put up any 'street cred' by saying 'oh but you've never heard them in real life' in order to discredit other people's opinions about televised sound.

[WhiteBlue]

I'm sure that the PTB know that the noise is part of the the spectacle and will try to keep that. The turbo F1 engines didn't have a bad sound at all and it looks like F1 is looking at petrol engines and not the diesels that need the soot filters. So we do have little reason to condemn future plans out of hands.