Button signs for Mclaren

[segedunum]

Mate, you verge on the sycophantic. The season is over. He has fulfilled his contract. He has even brought them the top prize, and contributed to the second prize.

That's not at issue here. What was at issue were your comments that, quite frankly, bordered on wishful thinking and a disregard for Button's past dealings in these matters as to what went on. But, we're all entitled to opinions.

Him and his manager were getting nowhere with the contract negotiations so looked elsewhere.

They got impatient to nail down a contract when it was probably made abundantly clear that nothing could happen until the Mercedes thing settled. The factory visit to McLaren was an utterly idiotic thing to do, and it can only have been to try and rub Mercedes and Brawn up the wrong way because he was never going to get an improved offer after that. It was pointless.

I don't see what he's done wrong. Haven't you ever been to an interview while you still had a job? I know I have.

Yes, but most contracts of any importance have non-competition clauses where you don't work for someone else or do anything promotional when you are contracted to someone else. It's an entirely different thing.

You've tried to take a rather simplistic view of this which is completely wrong.

Even if it is in his contract that he was not allowed to visit other teams, his Brawn contract is over at the end of the year. It's not like there was even any testing he could do.

He has still breached it and rubbed Brawn up the wrong way so he won't be released early. If he was going to join McLaren he should have done it quickly and quietly.

You're naive in thinking small teams succeed. Brawn's success stemmed from one of the biggest budgets in 2008.

Mercedes are not a small team.

Redbull may be independant but they too spent an awful lot redeveloping their racer to take a DDD. Probably more than Ferrari, judging on the amount of changes seen through the year.

So? How does it follow that McLaren will be back to the front next year when you have other credible teams like Red Bull around? My point still stands.

A couple of weeks back it emerged that all was not well within Brawn. It was leaked that the designers, engineers, etc. were complaining that they weren't receiving bonuses due to them....

Yadda, yadd, yadda yadda. Yes, I'm sure other competitors wanted to destabilise the apple cart at Brawn and pick up some of their talent on the cheap. There is nothing so suggest that that is the current situation today and I'm not aware of a mass exodus of staff. Given that they have secured their future with Mercedes I doubt whether that will happen.

[segedunum]

If this is true, why didn't the F60 receive any aero upgrades that were found for the F2010?

Ferrari is a special case. They came to the conclusion that the F60 was utter junk, they couldn't fit a DDD to it and they're having to throw a lot of their wrong 2009 ideas away in order to create a 2010 car based on 2009 regulations that they should have had to start with if they wanted to compete with other teams. They're almost a year behind basically. Ferrari just didn't feel that it was worth pulling out all the stops to fit a DDD and other improvements like McLaren did.

Every other team is evolving their car. Red Bull will evolve into 2010, and indeed, everyone else including Ferrari will be copying a lot of their aerodynamics. Brawn Merc will evolve their car into next year as will McLaren to an extent, but they're further behind. That's why they were improving their cars and testing up until the last race, which is a sensible thing to do with the lack of testing until February.

Looking at Ferrari isn't the best example here because they are so far behind.

[lebesset]

as requested , richard

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80230

[WhiteBlue]

The discussions here confirms my view that McLaren spooked Button into a foolish move with this rather public factory invitation.

It is almost certain that Button had a bigger offer for more money but less years on the table when the invitation arrived.

He had no need to make a public visit to McLaren for discussing contracts. This could have been done in a nice hide away in the Chiltons or any other place without publicity. But McLaren were keen to expose him to their glitzy facilities and long trophy cabinets. On top they made him break his contract with Brawn because you cannot do PR days with the oppo as long as you are on contract. It certainly looks like Button did not understand what was on his old employer's mind with the corporate rehash.

It could well be that Button thinks McLaren will give him a better car than MercGP next year. But is that really a rational view on things? Ultimately it is always a gamble.

In my view the top four teams of 2009 are all in with a pretty good chance for a top car in 2010. They have managed to fend of an early impact of the resource restrictions so a rich team like Ferrari might make a big step with the long development time they had.

McLaren is also a force to reckon with as their late 2009 successes have shown. But their financial situation is going to rapidly deteriorate from their current status. Instead of huge transfers from Merc they will have a reversed cash flow of money going back to Merc for two years now. On top they will have massive financial constraints over the road car investment, which will not get them any revenues for another 18 months. The no brainer solution to this will see some people move from F1 to road cars and this is going to bring instability to the team.

Red Bull have shown that they are in an up hill climb and look like an unstoppable force. Even the DDD decision which went the worst possible way for them could not stop them to succeed. They may have had the best chassis in 2009. No reason why they cannot repeat this in 2010. They have stability in the team and the resources to continue on a successfull path.

MercGP also have a lot of plusses on their side. Ross has shown very clearly that he can turn a bunch of loosers into a team capable of building a winning car. His 2009 season was run in a way to establish himself in the top three for a long time. I do not doubt his ability to do just that. If he had a more capable guy than Nick Fry for the commercial aspects my confidence in the team would be even higher. Luckily he will have Merc to back him up on commercial issues and with finance power. With no last ditch effort to integrate another engine Brawn's 2010 car should probably be no slough either.

[PlatinumZealot]

I would have went too if I was in Button's position. IT's MCLAREN!!

You can tell your grandchildren that you drove at Mclaren and you can even show them your trophies in the Mclaren Trophy case. I would really want to be a part of that history even I was payed minimum wage to drive. (not to mention the endorsements that come along being a mclaren driver too!) Just like Fisichella at Ferrari, it's a dream come true for Button.

[Pandamasque]

You can tell your grandchildren that you drove at Mclaren and you can even show them your trophies in the Mclaren Trophy case.

Wouldn't you be sacked for taking photos of the McLaren trophy cabinet with your trophies in it?

[DanyalDenyo]

You can tell your grandchildren that you drove at Mclaren and you can even show them your trophies in the Mclaren Trophy case.

Wouldn't you be sacked for taking photos of the McLaren trophy cabinet with your trophies in it?

Nah... You would show them the fakes you own and hope that you die before they find out the real ones are at uncle ron's

[mx_tifoso]

Button's Christmas List:


Sniffpetrol

[lebesset]

any comments ?

[Pandamasque]

It looks like many on the forum including myself were wrong in saying that McLaren would favour Lewis. I never doubted Jenson as a worthy champion but I'm quite surprised by the way how well and quickly he become comfortable in the team and gained their trust. Button seems to be one of those drivers who really need to be feel perfectly at home in the team to deliver.

[raymondu999]

I think that part of it would be because he seems so much more mature than Lewis. Lewis is fast, and I don't think even his doubters can doubt that. But he seems to be breaking down emotionally/nervously more. I must admit, I fully expected (as did quite a few people, I suppose) Lewis to comfortably outqualify Jenson most of the time. But he got me wrong, and I'm still shocked there.

Button however as we all know is so smooth and I think that could be aiding him in his detection and feel of the track's grip level. His two wins have been based largely on amazing strokes of genius in pitstop calls (or stay-out calls, in this case.) and not quite due to outright pace. I think in this respect he is a better racer, and race strategist than Lewis. I must concede defeat though. I never figured that Jenson could outperform Lewis quite solidly, taking McL's first two wins with Lewis 0. I was among the people who were thinking more along the lines of, "it's the car, not the driver" last year.

I think 1 thing that strikes me really, is that he wants the car to be fully "him" in terms of balance and setup. If his setup has been fully dialled in, and he's comfy with the car, he will be able to perform 100%, even outperforming seemingly faster teammates. But if he's a bit "off" in terms of setup, be it under/oversteer, he tends to suffer more than his teammates.

All in all, well done to Jenson, he's solidly proved me wrong with 2 wins over Lewis. lol

[lebesset]

don't thing anyone would really doubt that hamilton is comfortably the fastest driver in F1 , in fact he is the fastest driver since senna on whom he models himself ; but don't forget he is a relative novice, he has less experience than vettel if I remember correctly

button , on the other hand , has a different approach , lots of experience , and given a competitive car which is suitable for his style , he is the most complete driver in F1 to my mind

JM Fangio had a lot of nicknames , based on the fact that he was short , fat , and balding ; but his more polite one was ..the argentine fox .... due to his driving style ...smooth , balanced , precise ,sensitive, the master of strategy ; according to someone I used to know who was there at the time , his phenomenal win rate was due to the fact that he never drove flat out [ well hardly ever I suppose ]and was the one still with tyres when it came to the sharp end of the race ; don't think anyone would dispute that he was the best of his time , no wonder he survived at a time when so many were killed

I admit that I too was wrong , I fully expected that it would be half way through the season before button got a car in which he could exhibit his talents , even a full season ; and I still feel that vettel with the fastest car and a good front runner , or hamilton with his ability to come through the field , will be ahead at the end of the season [ given a hot dry summer and reliability ]

I hear people say button is lucky and then watch alonso catch 2 safety cars today without which he would have been 14th, not 4th ...that's skill , they say ...well I like a good laugh , wonder if massa laughed when he got pushed off the track

button would have been world champion a couple of times before if he had been willing to pay flavio 20% to manage him , but he wasn't and lost his seat to lucky who did ... with results we all know when renault had special tyres, special electronics , and special suspension

personally I am not much for nicknames , but how about the Frome Flyer ?
no , maybe not

[raymondu999]

don't thing anyone would really doubt that hamilton is comfortably the fastest driver in F1 , in fact he is the fastest driver since senna on whom he models himself

I'd be careful about that... I personally subscribe to a different driver as this...

[lebesset]

do tell , raymond ,I can't imagine who !

[raymondu999]

the young german kid in an austrian renault