Max says Ferrari and Montezemolo crap

[timbo]

"Where I consider myself very fortunate is that I have not, since 1994, had to confront a real problem in Formula One - the death or incapacitating injury of a driver, although- very sadly, we have twice lost a marshal These are the only times I deeply care. Problems like so-called Spygate, Liegate, and Crashgate controversies don't really matter. Everyone is still walking around. It's the awful finalityof death or incapacity that gets to you when you are ultimately responsible."

Well, it seems that was said after Henry Surtees death (crashgate noted)? Not too sensible of him.

The very next sentence in the quote:

"Fatalities get less publicity in other categories of competition, but still happen despite all our efforts."

Which only means that it all comes down to luck as much as to anyone's effort.

Also, deaths and crashes that happened @1994 were results of drastic rule changes that were at least approved (if not driven) by him.

[Giblet]

That is debatable. Deaths were a regular occurrence in F1 long before he was in charge. Keep in mind the cars would still have a 1400hp qualifying trim if it wasn't for these and other rule changes put in place prior to 1994. The cars were far more dangerous prior to 1994.

I know turbo engines were gone before that as well, but still.

Max can hardly be blamed for developments in aero and tires that contributed to them being so fast.

Regardless, opinions on Max will differ across the board, as they do here, but I can't blame him in taking some pride in his part, no mater how large or small, in keeping deaths in F1 a thing of the past until this point (knocking on wood).

[WhiteBlue]

Well, it seems that was said after Henry Surtees death (crashgate noted)? Not too sensible of him.

The very next sentence in the quote:

"Fatalities get less publicity in other categories of competition, but still happen despite all our efforts."

Which only means that it all comes down to luck as much as to anyone's effort.

Also, deaths and crashes that happened @1994 were results of drastic rule changes that were at least approved (if not driven) by him.

The death of Henry Surtees was caused by more than bad luck. If F2 was entirely run on F1 certified tracks this accident had not happened the way it did. The accident was a two stage affair where another driver lost control of his car in a right hander and crashed into a barrier without passing any significant amount of speed trap. A wheel was ripped off his car due to the high degree of residual motion energy of the car. That wheel bounced over the track and hit young Surtees on the head. Had the first accident happened on a track with F1 standard safety measures the first car would probably not even have reached the crash barrier much less shed a wheel.

[timbo]

Max can hardly be blamed for developments in aero and tires that contributed to them being so fast.

It's not that the cars were fast, it's they were beasts to control because of electronics ban.

Regardless, opinions on Max will differ across the board, as they do here, but I can't blame him in taking some pride in his part, no mater how large or small, in keeping deaths in F1 a thing of the past until this point (knocking on wood).

Agreed.

[timbo]

If F2 was entirely run on F1 certified tracks this accident had not happened the way it did.

So, who's to blame?
Has anything changed?

[WhiteBlue]

If F2 was entirely run on F1 certified tracks this accident had not happened the way it did.

So, who's to blame?
Has anything changed?

I don't think that anybody is to blame. It is worth remembering that F1 is the pinnacle of safety compared to other open wheel formulae. That is to a huge part owed to Max Mosley's efforts and the people who engineered his safety demands.

[timbo]

It is worth remembering that F1 is the pinnacle of safety compared to other open wheel formulae.

At least on some safety developments -- stepped floor, cockpit side-protection, HANS it was behind Indycar/CART.

[WhiteBlue]

It is worth remembering that F1 is the pinnacle of safety compared to other open wheel formulae.

At least on some safety developments -- stepped floor, cockpit side-protection, HANS it was behind Indycar/CART.

Point taken. =D> But those series are dead or almost dead. F1 is still kicking! Open wheel in America is going the way of the dinosaurs. They just announced that Formula Atlantic is no more!

[timbo]

But those series are dead or almost dead. F1 is still kicking!

We would differ whether it's because or despite Mosley's efforts

PS no need of another round of discussion, that was just a joke

[autogyro]

Blame? I think that is the first thing that the FIA under Mosley dropped in any achievable way forward with safety.
Motor racing is dangerous and some people I know even believe that making it safer is the weedy modern way of doing things in our current PC environment.
Safety improvements have certainly changed motor sport and the way drivers go racing.
Many of the stupid moves like forcing other cars over and clashing wheels would never have been considered in the old days. To do so then often ended in a fatality.
Unfortunately there is always a cost trade off when looking for improved safety.
I once took an idea I had for flexible road surface run off areas to Charley Whiting. It was technicaly sound and a F3 team even offered me some cars to fire at the surface to develop the system in use. The cost would have been way to high though. It was the same for some of the crash barrier ideas talked about.

Back on the thread topic, there is a huge difference between Max Mosley who has always fought for the interests of F1 in all areas and safety for all who are part of it and a little figure head of a man running a gas guzzling sports car company that races F1 cars with at least five times more money than anyone else and only has shareholders and oil companies to answer to. There realy is no comparison, unless this is the Ferrari yin yang site and not FI-engineering.

[timbo]

Back on the thread topic, there is a huge difference between Max Mosley who has always fought for the interests of F1 in all areas and safety for all who are part of it and a little figure head of a man running a gas guzzling sports car company that races F1 cars with at least five times more money than anyone else and only has shareholders and oil companies to answer to.

Excuse me, but how exactly selling commercial rights for F1 for 100 years to a man who'd be most likely dead in 15 years is in F1 interest?

[autogyro]

Back on the thread topic, there is a huge difference between Max Mosley who has always fought for the interests of F1 in all areas and safety for all who are part of it and a little figure head of a man running a gas guzzling sports car company that races F1 cars with at least five times more money than anyone else and only has shareholders and oil companies to answer to.

Excuse me, but how exactly selling commercial rights for F1 for 100 years to a man who'd be most likely dead in 15 years is in F1 interest?

Perhaps because that man has taken F1 from a second rate barely viewed sport to probably the greatest spectacle on the world media of all time.
Does that count?!!!
Of course the PC correct younger generations would not know how to relate to this, after all they have everything they want on a plate, fought for and secured by those who went before. It is so easy to forget.

[timbo]

Perhaps because that man has taken F1 from a second rate barely viewed sport to probably the greatest spectacle on the world media of all time.
Does that count?!!!

For the record, F1 is nowhere near Football and Super-bowl.
With Bernie's position there's no guarantee F1 would have anything other than local cable provider broadcast.

[Giblet]

As much as Bernie would like to take credit, it's drivers like Senna (for me) and Schumi (for many others) and their ilk that helped catapult the sport to where it is.

[autogyro]

Perhaps because that man has taken F1 from a second rate barely viewed sport to probably the greatest spectacle on the world media of all time.
Does that count?!!!

For the record, F1 is nowhere near Football and Super-bowl.
With Bernie's position there's no guarantee F1 would have anything other than local cable provider broadcast.

I dont count grollyball as a spectacle and super bowl to me is just rugby with hats on but I accept your statement on figures.
I dont understand your criticism of Bernies TV set up. it may be a monopoly but there is plenty of world F1 coverage.
Anyway we are getting away from the subject again. I still say there is absolutely no comparison between Max and his success with F1 and Montezemolo and his devious methods for maintaining an unfair advantage for Ferrari at the expense of F1 and also at the expense of developments in energy efficient road cars.