Mercedes GP MGP W01

[marcush.]

Schumacher and Rosberg are getting the same updates. The only thing Schumacher is getting that Rosberg is not is the old chassis to replace his damaged one. That would just be the tub. You guys are reaching saying Schumacher will get the updates and Rosberg would not. This update has been scheduled for a long time.

exactly .
one thing might be though: if the short Wheelbase is more to rosbergs liking ,this could force him to use the longWB as well as i don´t think the aero upgrade will be downwards compatible..

[Belatti]

What I don´t understand is :
if I have a weight distribution problem that hurts my tyre usage and balance ...why not carry a few extra kilos to cure the balance issue and get rid of the unwanted handling cues of the car?

what I meant is: if you have an imbalance in the car that is caused by a wheigt distribution problem,woul´t it not be better to cure the weight distribution trouble by carrying more weight ,instead of compromising the setup and ruining your tyres ?
you might loose 2 tenths or 4 in qualy but during the race this would make life easier.and of course you could try and gamble a bit more with fuelload to compensate.. but that would be another thing..

This is F1 and the team we are talking about is Mercedes, not HRT

[marcush.]

so a simple solution cannot give answers ,we need F1_eng to come up with a middle sized suitcase full of formulas and still claim it is a complicated matter and can possibly not resolved?
I ´m pretty sure you could ,with this approach get quite a clear picture what the car lacks as you will be able to gauge performance ,not for empty tank ,yes ,but for a a relativvely small fuuelload up to full tank. from there you can very exactly derive the possible gains by adjusting the weight distribution in real world terms
by experiment.the big question would be if the added weight would be so much detrimental to performance when the balance would be better over the distance + tyres would not degrade as a consequence(starting from a lower absolute performance but being more consistant) .
Anyways better than being not able to push in the race because as you do so you overheat the rear tyres.. don´t you think so?

[lotus7]

I bet the one he is using now is perfectly fine (in terms of damage)

This intrigues me ..
What could be broken on a chassis that will affect handling/traction but will not affect the chassis integrity ?
Surely a chassis that broke in way that it affects handling and could not be properly fixed (as per RB ) must be an unsafe chassis .
Does anybody have an idea of what/where this was chassis broken ?
To me it sounds like a diverting statement from Ross.

[axle]

Schumacher and Rosberg are getting the same updates. The only thing Schumacher is getting that Rosberg is not is the old chassis to replace his damaged one. That would just be the tub. You guys are reaching saying Schumacher will get the updates and Rosberg would not. This update has been scheduled for a long time.

exactly .
one thing might be though: if the short Wheelbase is more to rosbergs liking ,this could force him to use the longWB as well as i don´t think the aero upgrade will be downwards compatible..

I don't think NR does like the current car, he's just better at driving it. If the numbers say the longer wheelbase etc version is faster (which is logical as they couldn't shift the weight enough) then they will both get it and both drive it faster.

Whether or not MS can catch up to NR is another matter entirely.

[ggajic]

@lotus7

Delamination. Unlike metal carbon reinforced plastic (or carbon fiber composites) can visually appear to be ok, while their structural integrity can be compromised inside. This is usually not surface visible, unlike metals where such damages can be visible..

[marcush.]

in years back it was quite common to see chassis degrade dramatically when exposed to water ..
aramid is a fibre that does attract water considerably ...so if there is a path for the water to enter the laminate it would destroy the part quite quickly..

schumacher was using weird lines in China I read somewhere....maybe not because he did not know the ways around the track but him trying to drive around the car problem..

and in fact to loose 8 tenths per lap due to a chassis weakness is surely hinting not at a visually dramatic damage .
How often did we hear about Cars mysteriously and unexplainably loosing pace over time..in times of magnesium gearbox and bellhousings this was not fiction it was fact and those cars lost seconds not tenths.

Wasn´t Vettel having a similar issue last year with Kate?

[aral]

I bet the one he is using now is perfectly fine (in terms of damage)

This intrigues me ..
What could be broken on a chassis that will affect handling/traction but will not affect the chassis integrity ?
Surely a chassis that broke in way that it affects handling and could not be properly fixed (as per RB ) must be an unsafe chassis .
Does anybody have an idea of what/where this was chassis broken ?
To me it sounds like a diverting statement from Ross.

I agree, lotus 7. If the tub was damaged, it would be declared unsafe by the scrutineers, until proper repairs had been carried out. Health and Safety would have a field day, with these issues. Was Schumacher sent out to race in an inherently unsafe car, that would have had no structural rigidity in event of a crash?

[dren]

Schumacher and Rosberg are getting the same updates. The only thing Schumacher is getting that Rosberg is not is the old chassis to replace his damaged one. That would just be the tub. You guys are reaching saying Schumacher will get the updates and Rosberg would not. This update has been scheduled for a long time.

exactly .
one thing might be though: if the short Wheelbase is more to rosbergs liking ,this could force him to use the longWB as well as i don´t think the aero upgrade will be downwards compatible..

I don't think NR does like the current car, he's just better at driving it. If the numbers say the longer wheelbase etc version is faster (which is logical as they couldn't shift the weight enough) then they will both get it and both drive it faster.

Whether or not MS can catch up to NR is another matter entirely.

Agree there. The car will be quicker, but how each driver drives it will be the determining factor. I expect both drivers to be much closer pace wise in Spain. I am curious what aero updates will be added to the car. I figure more teams may bring a Renault like diffuser if they can fit it.

[dren]

Should we expect a high nose with the elongated wheel base, or the currently used nose?

[timbo]

Should we expect a high nose with the elongated wheel base, or the currently used nose?

I think the nose stays as it is. Changing nose dramatically would require crash test.

I think they change wheelbase by altering suspension only.

[marcush.]

Should we expect a high nose with the elongated wheel base, or the currently used nose?

I think the nose stays as it is. Changing nose dramatically would require crash test.

I think they change wheelbase by altering suspension only.

at least they have to bring new wingstays as the wing has to move with the front tyres obviously...

[lotus7]

I agree, lotus 7. If the tub was damaged, it would be declared unsafe by the scrutineers, until proper repairs had been carried out. Health and Safety would have a field day, with these issues. Was Schumacher sent out to race in an inherently unsafe car, that would have had no structural rigidity in event of a crash?

This certainly had me thinking ....
I was ( with others) in an around a table discussion with Alistair Gibson beginnin g of last year. Specifically the QC involved at F1 ( OK at Honda, going to Brawn)level was more than an eye opener to me . From what he related , this type of defect would have been picked up early , certainly during free practice , or can delimination happen sudden in a race ? Shu was slow throughout the weekend AFAIAC so the delaimination/chassis deterioration should have been picked up - Those guys got all sorts of x-ray/diagnostic equipment at the ready .
Alistair's story of them designing/building/QCing their refuel rig comes to mind

[marcush.]

I agree, lotus 7. If the tub was damaged, it would be declared unsafe by the scrutineers, until proper repairs had been carried out. Health and Safety would have a field day, with these issues. Was Schumacher sent out to race in an inherently unsafe car, that would have had no structural rigidity in event of a crash?

This certainly had me thinking ....
I was ( with others) in an around a table discussion with Alistair Gibson beginnin g of last year. Specifically the QC involved at F1 ( OK at Honda, going to Brawn)level was more than an eye opener to me . From what he related , this type of defect would have been picked up early , certainly during free practice , or can delimination happen sudden in a race ? Shu was slow throughout the weekend AFAIAC so the delaimination/chassis deterioration should have been picked up - Those guys got all sorts of x-ray/diagnostic equipment at the ready .
Alistair's story of them designing/building/QCing their refuel rig comes to mind

the question is not if they had detected the fault.they admitted they had an issue
which was repaired in the field but not to the standards available at their base.
so diagnosis was made presumably .No contradiction there.It remains to be clarified just why they did not exchange the tub as a precautionary measurement before China .Was the spare tub not available? Or was the repair a failure?

[lotus7]

the question is not if they had detected the fault.they admitted they had an issue
which was repaired in the field but not to the standards available at their base.
so diagnosis was made presumably .No contradiction there.It remains to be clarified just why they did not exchange the tub as a precautionary measurement before China .Was the spare tub not available? Or was the repair a failure?

IMO it could not have been a very threatening issue , carbon fibre repairs ( if it was delamination ) could only have been of an "elastoplast" nature trackside - If the issue indeed caused chassis flexing, as was deluded , which F1 driver would drive car like that.
This chassis swopping is more than just a "pick the test chassis of the shelf" variety . That chassis has modifications to it ?
Or a "spacer" between engine and gearbox to lengthen the WB , maybe