BMW Megacity Electric Car

[autogyro]

Well you seem to believe everything the nuclear lobby tell you and most of that is lies.
Anyway back to BMWs attempt to join the media hype on the green image.
Lets face it they have to catch the others and VW has a good leed at present.

[flynfrog]

Well you seem to believe everything the green lobby tell you and most of that is lies.
Anyway back to BMWs attempt to join the media hype on the green image.
Lets face it they have to catch the others and VW has a good leed at present.


Back to BMWs its cool to see GFRP being used more in autos but trying to pretend they green is some what of a joke. I wonder how much dust to dust oil could have been saved by making it out of steel.

[autogyro]

Well you seem to believe everything the green lobby tell you and most of that is lies.
Anyway back to BMWs attempt to join the media hype on the green image.
Lets face it they have to catch the others and VW has a good leed at present.


Back to BMWs its cool to see GFRP being used more in autos but trying to pretend they green is some what of a joke. I wonder how much dust to dust oil could have been saved by making it out of steel.

I do not believe all the green lobby says and there is a green party now anyway. The comparison you make with the nuclear lobby has no substance. The nuclear lobby is a narrow focused lobby designed to generate money for share holders, it cares not one jot for the children of the future generations.

Making cars from steel was always designed to force the need for replacement cars, there is little other reason for such wasteful production methods. Like I keep saying, it is the will for change that will count in green issues. BMW is no different to the other car giants, it does things to keep selling cars, that is what it exists for. It will only pay lip service to green issues for as long as it can get away with it.

[Just_a_fan]

The nuclear lobby is a narrow focused lobby designed to generate money for share holders,

One can just as easily say that the green lobby is a narrow focused lobby designed to spread a pseudo-religious philosophy

it cares not one jot for the children of the future generations.

Why should it? Why should I?

Making cars from steel was always designed to force the need for replacement cars, there is little other reason for such wasteful production methods.

Really? You know that steel was used for this reason do you? Have proof of this do you? The fact that steel is just a progression from the iron previously used for mechanical devices has nothing to do with it presumably... Not just another one of your "spout my own beliefs as the only real truth" rants is it?

Auto, you make lots of statements as if they were facts; looks impressive but smacks of the politician searching for votes or the minister preaching from the pulpit.

[flynfrog]

The nuclear lobby is a narrow focused lobby designed to generate money for share holders,

One can just as easily say that the green lobby is a narrow focused lobby designed to spread a pseudo-religious philosophy

it cares not one jot for the children of the future generations.

Why should it? Why should I?

Making cars from steel was always designed to force the need for replacement cars, there is little other reason for such wasteful production methods.

Really? You know that steel was used for this reason do you? Have proof of this do you? The fact that steel is just a progression from the iron previously used for mechanical devices has nothing to do with it presumably... Not just another one of your "spout my own beliefs as the only real truth" rants is it?

Auto, you make lots of statements as if they were facts; looks impressive but smacks of the politician searching for votes or the minister preaching from the pulpit.

Meh I just quit arguing with him

not to mention all of the steel cars that are older than any one on this forum that are still running.

[marcush.]

with all those green claims ,even the nuclear lobby was heard claiming to be be green technology btw...

to throw carbonfibre technology at car mass production as a means of green technology seems outlandish to me ...when already in Aerospace industry carbonfibre shortages lead to prices rocketing.

[WhiteBlue]

It is just a question of CF industry getting to the next level of production efficiency and investment. Big jumps in demand always lead to capacity growth and scaling advantages.

[marcush.]

It is just a question of CF industry getting to the next level of production efficiency and investment. Big jumps in demand always lead to capacity growth and scaling advantages.

maybe in the same sense as the battery industry mow gearing up for the booming market when it is complety obvious that in 2014 already there is such a big overcapacity that most of the producers now gearing up will get into big trouble soon.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/02 ... 00223.html

the price for carbonfibre would then have to come down a long ways and new methods of production would have to be industrialised and THEN only Automotive industry would change their minds and consider mass production of cf cars.so we are talking about 10+years here. The automotive industry is cost driven and would never ever consider a more expensive alternative as the whole thinking is relying on target prices.So of course they are asking for the next step tecnology ,but they are not prepared to fork out ANY extra money for it.The one thing that may change this would be something forcing them to do so ...as drastic fleet consumption reductions enforced ...

[Just_a_fan]

The big question is whether they have managed to massively reduce the energy required to make c/f in the first place.

Does anyone have any info comparing the embodied energy of c/f compared to steel and aluminium? Also, is there any part of c/f that is recyclable? I suppose the resin might be but whether it's practical is another matter. In theory I suppose if one could dissolve the matrix off the fibres then the fibres could be reused too. Wonder what sort of nasty chemicals that would need / result in.

[marcush.]

The big question is whether they have managed to massively reduce the energy required to make c/f in the first place.

Does anyone have any info comparing the embodied energy of c/f compared to steel and aluminium? Also, is there any part of c/f that is recyclable? I suppose the resin might be but whether it's practical is another matter. In theory I suppose if one could dissolve the matrix off the fibres then the fibres could be reused too. Wonder what sort of nasty chemicals that would need / result in.

the fibres can be recycled ,but them are not really useful for high strength applications.

as for the resin....if you use thermoplastic resins ..yes
as for the others ..can be shreddered an used as fillings or whatever some ingenious chap happens to find a clever solution for further usage..

[autogyro]

Why you giver up flyny-frog, you no likey debate?

There is a 'Green Party' in the UK with a whole raft of policies. True the media is in the pockets of the main three parties and has not given fair coverage to 'green' issues, or any other issues as it happens, so the general public remains to the most part in ignorance but there is nothing unusual in that.
The nuclear lobby feeds off this ignorance and further destabalises progress.

It is nice to see very old steel cars in an historical sense but I wonder just how much energy and materials have been used to keep steel from rusting in the world vehicle park since the 19th century. How much to crush, re melt and process the scrap cars. The 'waste' is in the culture that has developed alongside the technology. The 'throw away' society. BMW using carbon fibre is just another extension of this culture at the moment, their real aim is to look green (lie), not attempt any of the major technology changes needed to actualy become green.

[Mysticf1]

What would you prefer cars were made of Autogyro? I still drive my 1972 model jap car every day and i consider that my part in saving the energy required to manufacture a new one, a form of recycling if you like.

[autogyro]

What would you prefer cars were made of Autogyro? I still drive my 1972 model jap car every day and i consider that my part in saving the energy required to manufacture a new one, a form of recycling if you like.

It is not a question of what I prefer cars to be made of, it is making the change to applying science and technology to reduce energy use in production and increase product longevity.
I would no more buy a new car than set fire to a rain forest and I congratulate you Mysticf1 for avoiding the marketing hype and corruption that forces people to do so.

[WhiteBlue]

The big question is whether they have managed to massively reduce the energy required to make c/f in the first place.

Does anyone have any info comparing the embodied energy of c/f compared to steel and aluminium? Also, is there any part of c/f that is recyclable? I suppose the resin might be but whether it's practical is another matter. In theory I suppose if one could dissolve the matrix off the fibres then the fibres could be reused too. Wonder what sort of nasty chemicals that would need / result in.

the fibres can be recycled ,but them are not really useful for high strength applications.

as for the resin....if you use thermoplastic resins ..yes
as for the others ..can be shreddered an used as fillings or whatever some ingenious chap happens to find a clever solution for further usage..

Best use is actually to use it as fuel for incinerators or process heat.

[Just_a_fan]

Auto,

The reason the manufacturers try to look green (and I agree with you in part on their doing so) is because the only true green way is to massively reduce the need / desire to use personal transport systems and that is not in their interests.

The real problem for car makers and users is that petrol/diesel has such a high energy density. I can put 50kg of diesel in my car and drive 600+ miles. And I can put that energy in to my car in a couple of minutes. Electric systems will probably never be able to achieve that.

That's the problem - cars are much too convenient and people will take an awful lot of persuading to move away from that convenience. What's really needed is not 'green' cars but really good public transport systems. And those systems need to be relatively cheap to use too - not something that can be said of the UK's infrastructure at the moment.

Mass manufacturerd c/f cars are anything but 'green'. They'll be sold as 'lightweight' (which is good) but they won't be light at all; they'll just be relatively light when compared to current cars but then current cars are much too heavy anyway. If BMW can make their car weigh e.g. 800kg with room to carry 5 plus meaningful luggage then I'll be impressed. I doubt they'll get close though...